The Tent

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: The Tent

im sure they gave the artist some love.

That's extremely presumptuous considering that no writing credit was given.

we don't know any of the way this song all went down

This is true

i think people on this board that are "Pissed off" need to take a chill pill and stop channeling your anger about the album as a whole

I think it is extremely relevant to a number of negative moves being made around this album. If you don't like seeing it discussed, find a hole.

"dredg totally ripped off an artist"

Yes, and it is very fucked up. Does he deserve less respect than dredg?

"an artist that wrote a 5 minute piece that didn't change in 68 measures that was featured on a very unknown independent animated film"

He obviously does to you. I'd hate to see objectivity cloud your bias. It doesn't matter who or where it was plagiarized from.

If it was an honest mistake and the guy is given the credit that is due to him, I have no problem with it. Shit happens. Mikael Akerfeldt jokes about ripping off Guns N' Roses routinely. It doesn't have to be a big deal if you just man up to it. Shit happens. Or are they trying to keep this on the down low?

[Knifeboy]

Re: The Tent

"Man up to it"? DTA has been doing it for years i'm pretty sure he's not trying to hide it

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: The Tent

"Man up to it"? DTA has been doing it for years i'm pretty sure he's not trying to hide it

dredg put their name on the album, though. Thus, they are taking credit for someone else's work as it stands.

I don't really care what Dan Nakamura does. I'm not going to listen to his music one way or the other.

[dredgfan001]

Re: The Tent

you guys might actually be fucking insane. Sampling and re-mixing music is nothing new. Dredg and DTA are not trying to sneak anything by you guys or anyone for that matter. If anything this is a tribute to the movie, and a reference. Jesus christ, you guys dig so deep for meaning, maybe the song and the movie have a correlation?

there are countless legitimate artist out there, who sample other "artists" for their own benefit. There is whole movement around it in the mixtape rap community. For instance Yelawolf, a fairly well known and up and coming hip hop artist released a whole mix tape of classic rock cover songs. The mixtape was never physically released, no booklet, no credit given to the artist. Granted this is allowed since he won't technically be making money on the recording. But the recording still got him plenty of critical praise. Enough to get his name in some serious discussion circles.

or Sole, who just doesn't give one fuck about the rules

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEOVphG8jc4&feature=player_embedded#at=42

he re-does artists songs and then tweets it in their face. he never gets cease and desist orders. If you do something well enough, no one will fault you for it.

Another huge assumption here is that dredg actually sampled this. That movie soundtrack is in shitty lo-fi quality. The Tent has brand new instrumentation. That's no sample, so either Dan or the Dredg guys tracked a cleaner version of that part.

bottomline, is you are bunch of useless spoiled assholes grasping at straws over this album. if you don't like it, then just go away, leave the board. Dredg really isn't worried about you being their fan anyways. I know from having spoken to a few people close to the band, that dredg hate most of their fans. They really don't have to impress any of you, and I wouldn't expect for them to try.

Sorry, bro, your favorite band doesn't make like, hard rock anymore, bro, bro, bbbbbrrrrrrrroooooooooooooo.

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: The Tent

Another huge assumption here is that dredg actually sampled this. That movie soundtrack is in shitty lo-fi quality. The Tent has brand new instrumentation. That's no sample, so either Dan or the Dredg guys tracked a cleaner version of that part.

The only person saying it is "sampled" are people trying to justify it. They certainly recorded the instrumentation, but they did not give writing credit to the writer of the song.
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you guys might actually be fucking insane. Sampling and re-mixing music is nothing new. Dredg and DTA are not trying to sneak anything by you guys or anyone for that matter. If anything this is a tribute to the movie, and a reference. Jesus christ, you guys dig so deep for meaning, maybe the song and the movie have a correlation?

Yeah, we are digging deep in recognizing blatant musical plagiarism. Yet you are the one making up these hypothetical scenarios that MAY explain the plagiarism.
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bottomline, is you are bunch of useless spoiled assholes grasping at straws over this album. if you don't like it, then just go away, leave the board.

Of course. Your self-importance is better than my self-importance. I'm going to keep calling it like I see it. If you don't like it, leave the board.
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I know from having spoken to a few people close to the band, that dredg hate most of their fans. They really don't have to impress any of you, and I wouldn't expect for them to try.

If you don't know the band yourself, you really should stick to your own opining. That comment was stupid.
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there are countless legitimate artist out there, who sample other "artists" for their own benefit. There is whole movement around it in the mixtape rap community.

This is no different than people who recreate classic paintings and sell them as originals. You may respect it, but I don't.

Who loves HOUSE MUSIC!?!?!?!?!?!

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if you don't like it, then just go away, leave the board. Dredg really isn't worried about you being their fan anyways. I know from having spoken to a few people close to the band, that dredg hate most of their fans. They really don't have to impress any of you, and I wouldn't expect for them to try.

Sorry, bro, your favorite band doesn't make like, hard rock anymore, bro, bro, bbbbbrrrrrrrroooooooooooooo.

I just have to reiterate how ridiculous this whole statement is. Most of us are dredg fans, even the ones who do not like this album at all. We still like dredg, though. We still expect dredg to make good music in the future. We just don't like THIS album. Why is that so audacious?

And I listen to a lot of music that is not hard rock. Most people on this board are pretty open-minded musically. It is not about the style for me. It's about the substance and the execution. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.

[Knifeboy]

Re: The Tent

Another huge assumption here is that dredg actually sampled this. That movie soundtrack is in shitty lo-fi quality. The Tent has brand new instrumentation. That's no sample, so either Dan or the Dredg guys tracked a cleaner version of that part.

Now, I don't actually think there's a problem here (I'm pro ripping off music I guess)

But I actually think rerecording it is worse than sampling it... Seems less justifiable to me

But then again, you don't actually know if the lo-fi quality youtube version is what DTA had to sample from

[dredgfan001]

Re: The Tent

hmm, I have better things to do with my time they argue at length with an obstinate fool. enjoying the view from your saddle a top your high horse? must feel good... lol

none of your points are relevant to me, so I don't know what to tell you...

enjoy your sad, negative little life. it must be hard being so righteous and just in such a savage and unfair world.

Knifeboy: it really doesn't matter, Dredg is just one band swimming in an ocean of music. The only reason this is being looked at with such a critical eye is because Dredg has been elevated by their core fan base to an unattainable ideal of progressive rock music. I doubt this is what the band was striving for when they wrote El Cielo. I would say Dredg has always been conscious of slipping into repetitiveness, and had no intention of being pigeon holed as a "new Pink Floyd" I can appreciate the execution argument. But really, CAMS is a perfectly fine album, it just lacks the essential elements that certain Dredg fans have come to anticipate. This does not make it bad music or poorly executed. It is just different, and that is all. I don't like every film by a director, I don't like every painting by an artist, I don't like every dish prepared by a chef, I don't like every album, or every song by a musician. This all boils down to taste, and how far people want to go to defend their taste. If CAMS isn't your taste, then be glad that Dredg released a prog-rock opus not too long ago. If you are really done with Dredg, there are plenty of mimic bands that have arisen since El Cielo that have expanded upon the aspects of El Cielo that many fell in love with.

Bottom line is disappointment comes from overly elevated expectations. Approaching things with an open mind is vital to long term appreciation of music. I can't count the number of times that someone has recommended something to me and at the time it wasn't my taste, but when re-visited in the future, I find that it speaks to me profoundly. Taste's evolve and change, just like anything. Clinging viciously to bias and judgement is an ugly position to be in. Especially in the case of The Tent, absolutely no one on this board knows what really was arranged between Dan, the band, and the composer of the original piece. Who knows, the composer may have been principally for the distribution of their music. I doubt Dredg was purposefully disrespectful, and in that case, that is their business and their prerogative.

[Gnomad]

Re: The Tent

OK, this got ridiculous fast. Everyone is making assumptions, on both sides. At this point, all we know is that the two songs sound alike. We're just spinning our wheels in the mud here. If the band wants to address it one day, then we'll come back to this. Otherwise, this topic is done.
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All right, someone let me know I kind of over did that and I agreed after thinking about it. So, it's open again and you guys can discuss whatever you want. But please, tone it down. ANKoF has a good point, especially in the sense that it shouldn't be taken so lightly. I know it's a serious issue, but it's really not as bad as anyone is making it out to be. Just keep it a bit more civil, okay?

[Penguin88]

Re: The Tent

"Me and my time are too important for me to argue with you, so I'll just waste energy trying to come up with scathing insults instead. And then I'll go argue with someone else. Waaahwaaah"

[dredgfan001]

Re: The Tent

never, my M.O. is storming the fort with flaming bags of cat shit.

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: The Tent

ANKoF has a good point

Now I know you're full of shit.

Seriously, though, I think it is something that they should just address. It happens. It's not the first time, and it won't be the last. It's just a matter of owning up to it. And if it falls on Dan, let HIM be the bearer of bad news. But to act like it didn't happen will only give their critics more ammunition. It doesn't have to be a big deal, but I think ignoring it makes it a big deal.

Whether or not you believe it, or even if it's fair, I DO hold dredg to a higher standard, as they have always displayed incredible integrity in a business that generally lacks it. I'm certain I am not alone here. I know that rappers/DJs regularly sample other people's hard work for quick fixes. However, being common does not make it right. dredg seemed to always strive to stand above that herd.

I went to school with a lot of people who copied their homework assignments to improve their grades. I chose not to and my grades suffered because of the totally screwed up curve that was created by rampant cheating. Could I have easily done the same and improved my grade? Yes. It was hard not to at times. But I let my personal integrity drive my decision and I am certainly proud of it. I was one of only a handful of people in my graduating class that earned every bit of my degree.

[InfraredDream]

Re: The Tent

Agree with every word of the last posting. This is why I take that seriosly. And I don't care what rap/hip hop producers do, never cared for that music, but this is just not right by my standarts and I value dredg way too much to see that happening As I said a few times, I guess/hope they did not know.

P.S. I was about to get out of that discussion after reading the posting about "dredg hating majority of their fans"... I am back just to say I think the same as the above.
Oh, and to say that The Tent issue and the way I react towards it has nothing to do with my taste of music or the new album and all that. I would react the same in every other case like this (music, painting, somebody's source code, etc.)

[evasivetear]

Re: The Tent

derailing conversation - what did you get your degree in?

back on conversation - i really don't know what to think in this situation. again, if this was something that really needed to be cleared by the original artist, i'd like to think that the proper course of action would have been taken. at the same time, outside of our little group here, i highly doubt many other dredg fans are going to dig as deeply as some of us do (bug eyes is still the top track on last.fm). regardless of whether or not permission was gained, i don't really think dredg owes us an explanation of where their music might come from/be inspired from.

don't get me wrong here akf, i also think highly of dredg, and think that they do have integrity and originality. in that sense, it would be right with you in that it'd make me sad if they ripped this off. however, because of that same regard i hold them in, i just default to thinking that they did get permission or whatever, and just didn't run it by me first. which is fine. cause i'm not in the band and don't need to know their inner workings

[Sittingsideways]

Re: The Tent

This is seriously overblown. haha.

[sangreal314]

Re: The Tent

derailing conversation - what did you get your degree in?

back on conversation - i really don't know what to think in this situation. again, if this was something that really needed to be cleared by the original artist, i'd like to think that the proper course of action would have been taken. at the same time, outside of our little group here, i highly doubt many other dredg fans are going to dig as deeply as some of us do (bug eyes is still the top track on last.fm). regardless of whether or not permission was gained, i don't really think dredg owes us an explanation of where their music might come from/be inspired from.

don't get me wrong here akf, i also think highly of dredg, and think that they do have integrity and originality. in that sense, it would be right with you in that it'd make me sad if they ripped this off. however, because of that same regard i hold them in, i just default to thinking that they did get permission or whatever, and just didn't run it by me first. which is fine. cause i'm not in the band and don't need to know their inner workings

this happened to my morning jacket recently and they immediately posted something saying that the song in question was definitely used as inspiration. they linked the song along with the message. that's all dredg needs to do.