Religion

[Trathena]

Well, Brock suggested that I start a topic on religion, so here we are. I used all ten options for the poll, but I'm sure that I've left something out. I did not list Buddhism or Taoism, simply because I think those are philosophies rather than religions, but I might be full of crap about that.

So. Here we are. Religion. Let's discuss it. All aspects of it. All beliefs and spiritualities: What we believe; what we don't believe; what we love about religion; what we hate about it; what we find stupid about it; what we find sublime about it. What we know about it; what we don't know. The harm it's done in the world; the good it's done in the world. Whether or not we give a shit about it at all.

ps. I have no idea how to post a poll, so it may not work

[IKnockStuffDown]

Re: Religion

I'm agnostic, borderline atheist. I was raised a Christian from as early as I can remember, but once I got to high school I had a little insight and realized that it was bullshit. I think I'm agnostic because I'm too scared to accept that there is really nothing beyond life on Earth.

Most religion is bad, and a practice of ignorance in my opinion. I think we should introduce our children to a number of beliefs and let them pick for them selves based on what THEY think is right, rather than enforcing something on them, turning them into a copy of ourselves. We shouldn't create clones, rather we should create more intelligent people as our offspring. Introduce them to critical thinking. Slightly evolve with each passing generation.

I think a defining point was when I was at the ripe age of twelve years old. My mother and I were in a heated argument and my mom said I had demons in me. Demons are mumbo jumbo. I don't believe in that shit. I remember pastors and preachers talking about talking to god and seeing god and such, and I just couldn't comprehend how someone can "talk" to god. How can you talk to someone that doesn't talk back? You must be crazy if you're hearing voices in your head. I was part of a church that was into the whole speaking in tongues and such, and that wasn't doing it for me. Even while I was still a "believer" I questioned it all. God has never helped me out, and obviously isn't helping the billions of people struggling to have a better life, or even survive, so why should I believe in it?

[Trathena]

Re: Religion

I was raised by very religious people too, Knock (is it OK if I abbreviate your name?). We were a Catholic family. I attended Catholic school until the 10th grade, when (through bad behavior and bad grades) I forced my parents to allow me to attend public schools. Church every Friday and Sunday. During Lent, church on Wednesdays too, when we'd pray the rosary and go through those awful, bloody Stations of the Cross. My Catholic high school was all-girls. It was bad. Pre-Vatican II. Lots of corporal punishment. At least one predatory priest. Another one was an alcoholic. But I have to admit that when I began attending public school, I noticed a big change in the curriculum and the quality of the education. I signed up for some college prep courses because I was so far ahead of the regular classes. Also, I admit that I missed the theology classes, which I found extremely interesting. Where I lived, sex education was not allowed in the public schools (the Moral Majority and Christian Coalition of the 1980s were in control of the school board), but I'd gotten it at Catholic school, believe it or not. I don't blame religion for any of negatives, but neither do I give religion credit for the positives of my education.

I kept attending church and believing in Christianity until my mid-twenties, when I began attending college (which I started late). That's when I like to say that I was "born again" into a thinking person. This wasn't just about religion; my entire world view changed during this time. As far as religion goes, I began having "doubts" and decided to read the Bible from beginning to end, which I did. Doing this caused me to lose my faith against my will. I didn't want to lose it, but my science, English, and Philosophy classes showed me another way of thinking and reading. Critical thinking and critical reading pulled the rug out from under my world view and I saw the Bible for what it is. So I lost my faith, and I was happy, but also very lonely and confused. Thus begins the Angry Atheist years. blah, blah, blah. I need speed this up...

I knew I was extremely ignorant, so I decided to attend graduate school and study the Great Book program, where I read Descartes, Kant, Aquinas, Augustine, Hume, Hegel, Hobbes, Vico, Shakespeare, etc. My world view was again changed. These philosphers, poets, historians and artists pulled the rug out from under my ideas of the world yet again. Thus began the Taoist/Deist years. I've not really changed from this.

Now, I go back and forth. I don't believe in the God of the Bible and don't think I ever will again. But I do think there might be a Creator. Sometimes, when forced to label myself I say I'm an agnostic with a fondness for paganism. No, I am not really a follower of the teleological ideology, but it's always made sense to me that if there is a Creator, it is manifested in Nature. Nature creates and destroys; it is awesome in its aspect. Evolution is found there, regeneration. It makes sense, so I pay attention to it.

Re: Monotheistic God Worshipers. Those who believe the Bible to be infallible. I agree that there's not much to respect there, simply because they--as a rule--don't do much to earn respect.

But those Gospels. Those Beatitudes. Hell yes. I respect that. But there is a BIG difference between followers of Jesus and worshipers of Jesus. Rarely do you find someone who does both. Moreover, Jesus wasn't saying anything that hadn't already been said in the East. He was just wonderful enough to find value in it and try to bring it to his people. Got killed for it. Praise Jehovah.

So there's me.

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Religion

I'm going to add more, but here's my quick synopsis.

I was raised Southern Baptist, spent some time at a Pentecostal church my freshman year of high school, then in the last couple years of high school started branching out into stuff like Buddhism and Daoism (which I really don't even consider a religion anyway).

College, I was in between. I considered myself just a deist in general, but I was against all organized religion. After my son was born, I went through a period of intense confusion - overwhelmed with awe at the "miracle" of birth and life but completely sick of the rules and politics that come with almost every spiritual canon.

After doing a lot of reading, a lot of thinking, and a lot of talking with a lot of people, I am now an atheist. I selected atheist and agnostic, however, because my argument against God isn't completely verifiable - that is, there is no way I can definitively say that there is no God. My atheism is an expression of my deductions based on what I know and what I've read, what I think of life and existence, etc.

[Ars Sycro]

Re: Religion

Raised a Southern Baptist. Never agreed with much of it and thought it was silly, but I went because I had to. I believe in God and Jesus [as in he was a "prophet" who tried to reform the world], but I hate all of the dogma. I've been to church maybe 10 times in the past 5 years. Basically, the major holidays with family. So, I believe in the concepts, but I realize the Bible is meant to serve a purpose that is so outdated that trying to read it and apply it to ourselves is dumb and pointless.

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Religion

Do you believe that Jesus was the son of God?

[IKnockStuffDown]

Re: Religion

You guys can call me Jason.

My friends and I have often discussed that religion was once needed, in a time with no real established morals other than the morals taught by religion. That time has now passed, and we are a generation of free thinkers able to find out for ourselves what is right and what is wrong. We no longer need some higher up telling us what to think, because we have reached a point where we can decide for ourselves. Sure, we can still use the bible as somewhat of a basis for our decisions of morality, but the other magical beings we are told to believe in that come along with it can be disregarded as nothing but that: fantasy.

[Ars Sycro]

Re: Religion

"Son" by the traditional sense? No. But we're all supposed to be children of God based off the Bible, so he could be a son in that sense.

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Religion

"Son" by the traditional sense? No. But we're all supposed to be children of God based off the Bible, so he could be a son in that sense.

Yeah. I don't mean metaphorically. I mean do you believe that God impregnated a virgin with his son?

Let's just clarify for the sake of this thread - I'm assuming that anyone who says that they are a Christian (Josh, I know you don't explicitly include yourself in this group) believes most of the following:

Jesus was born of a virgin who was impregnated by God.

Jesus was the walking incarnation of God on Earth and was perfect.

Jesus died for our sins.

Jesus rose from the dead on the third day after his crucifixion and later ascended to heaven.

There are other articles of faith that I would include in here like most of what is included in the Old Testament, but I understand that most Christians can acknowledge that most of it is bogus and ridiculous or metaphorical (even though they have to agree similarly that the Bible is the word of God and therefore infallible).

[Ars Sycro]

Re: Religion

Everything in the Bible is a story. A story meant to help or uplift people, or to teach them morals [such as being hedonistic will get you killed]. The 4 gospels are all different. There are some stories that have 3 different sets of "facts". Each was a letter for a different audience, so the stories were adjusted as such. To believe that the hand of God wrote every word of the Bible is simply ludicrous.

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Religion

Everything in the Bible is a story. A story meant to help or uplift people, or to teach them morals [such as being hedonistic will get you killed]. The 4 gospels are all different. There are some stories that have 3 different sets of "facts". Each was a letter for a different audience, so the stories were adjusted as such. To believe that the hand of God wrote every word of the Bible is simply ludicrous.

Well at least you said it so I didn't have.

[Trathena]

Re: Religion

Well, so far, no Christians to debate with us heathens.

Trathena added 8 Minutes and 9 Seconds later...

...but once I got to high school I had a little insight and realized that it was bullshit.

I envy you. I wish that I'd been as logical and individualistic when I was young.

Most religion is bad, and a practice of ignorance in my opinion.

I don't know if I agree with you about ignorance, especially younger Christians. You were right about religious upbringing being more brainwashing than anything else, so we have to cut the young adults some slack. It's tough giving up religion when you've been raised that it's your only true salvation.

However, I do think that eventually--as we get older--belief in magic and miracles and old testament law does become more and more dependent on blind faith and willful ignorance than actual thought and contemplation. It would have to.

Also "bad" . . . I'm not so sure about that either. I don't know if religion is bad. I guess it depends on the religion. Has religion caused more bad than good? Or have the religious caused more bad than good?

[sangreal314]

Re: Religion

i put other. i guess i would just say i'm a skeptic. a lot of times i say i don't believe in any of it. but at other times i believe that i might. my brother in law gave me a book for my b-day that is called "the case for christ" by lee strobel. the guy was a criminal reporter from chicago that decided to research and basically put christ/ianity on trial. he interviews all these different people, questioning every little detail of Christianity. basically, every one of them is unanimous that the bible is is a true historical artifact, in other words according to them it all really happened. that has been my whole thing, believing that none of it really happened. even after reading his case for it, my skepticism makes me think, well if you pay attention, all of the people he is interviewing went to the same schools, are part of the same societies, etc. so somehow i think that discredits everything. but i don't know. i would recommend reading it though, believer or not.

[Ars Sycro]

Re: Religion

It is known for a fact that some of what is stated in the Bible is historically accurate. It is the attribution that God or Jesus was responsible for them that is disputed.

[noresolution]

Re: Religion

No Buddhism option? I'm not a Buddhist, but there are almost half a billion of them..