Religion

[Shigeru]

Re: Religion

Born and raised in a reformed evangelical Presbyterian family. I'd probably consider myself more Baptist nowadays, though. I've always just kind of went through the motions of being a Christian. I know the right things to say. I can fake it better than most. But lately, I decided to take my faith more seriously. I "believed" it, but never really acted it. Recently I've started acting my faith out, and can say I'm far and away happier with my life and where my life is headed. I have a joy that I felt was missing my entire life.

[Trathena]

Re: Religion

Nowadays, virgin birth is very much possible.

lol! Actually, that made me laugh.

But seriously, Catholics believe in the immaculate conception. And that Mary stayed a virgin even though she gave birth to Jesus. Now that's something that takes a lot of faith to wrap your mind around.

[Ars Sycro]

Re: Religion

It's not just that she stayed a virgin with giving birth to Jesus, they deny that she was ever not a virgin. Despite the fact that even the Bible mentions Jesus's brothers and sisters.

Ars Sycro added 1 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

The Bible wasn't written today.

Duh... you just tried to use "virgin birth" as an example of something that isn't possible ... but it is.

Ars Sycro added 2 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

Christianity is not the only religion that believes in virgin birth... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseus

Ars Sycro added 2 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

Also, Islam apparently believes in the virginal birth of Jesus... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Religion

Absolutely.

[Corroded Halo]

Re: Religion

Agnostic here. Raised episcopalian by conservative but not extremely religious parents, attending church rather infrequently. Decided I didn't buy it anymore around the beginning of HS, and have changed my views on the matter little in the 5-6 years since.

Not sure what others' thoughts on this are, but I credit the Internet with giving a much larger proportion of our generation the courage to doubt their religious upbringing than in times past. I'm not sure my views would have evolved the way they did, or at least as early as they did, without online communities like this that allow anonymous interaction and exchange of our true thoughts without the facade of social conventions/expectations.

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Religion

Agnostic here. Raised episcopalian by conservative but not extremely religious parents, attending church rather infrequently. Decided I didn't buy it anymore around the beginning of HS, and have changed my views on the matter little in the 5-6 years since.

Not sure what others' thoughts on this are, but I credit the Internet with giving a much larger proportion of our generation the courage to doubt their religious upbringing than in times past. I'm not sure my views would have evolved the way they did, or at least as early as they did, without online communities like this that allow anonymous interaction and exchange of our true thoughts without the facade of social conventions/expectations.

SO true. I think that the privacy of internet discussions actually encourage EVERYONE to be more honest about what they believe; there are plenty of religious people who feel uncomfortable discussing their faith among people who may not be religious as well. The general anonymity of a message board allows everyone to debate topics from their sincere point of view.

[Trathena]

Re: Religion

Corroded Halo, absolutely, and this goes beyond religious beliefs (or the lack of them). I've heard gay adolescents and young adults express that finding others "like myself" on the Internet was a godsend

[Trathena]

Re: Religion

Gosh! Imagine you're in heaven, flying around, playing your harp, snacking on manna, happy as can be, and suddenly--bam!--you're a Mormon! No fair!

http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_9155036

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: Religion

I was baptised catholic, but my parents are very open-minded and didn't push me. My whole life I felt distant from church, but I finally decided to stop lying to myself about 8 years ago when I was finishing high school. Since then I have taken several religious studies courses, finding great knowledge can be taken from all of them. However, I tend to believe that the major religions are best represented as the blind men and the elephant.

In college I began experimenting with more shamanic rituals, trying to find inner and outer strength. Salvia was very helpful in understanding my interaction with the world around me. Mushrooms were very helpful in understanding perception. Then I read Heaven and Hell and Doors of Perception. Both changed my perspective to what I call a wholistic approach. Finally, I was introduced to Richard Bach through Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah. The eastern beliefs meshed with christianity in a way that showed me that we are all one and nothing. Jonathon Livingston Seagull opened my eyes even wider.

My current belief is that everything, caused by a greater power or not, will follow logic. Much as we are reincarnated into a new existance, the universe and its matter and energy are recycled to form a pulsation of sorts. We are not sent to hell, but rather the quality of energy within our spirit-as-a-whole determines the polarity of our future existences. We cannot seperate our spirits from one another or from the living multiverse. They are intertwined and interact with one another in a complicated waveform.

Who thinks I'm a quack now?

[Trathena]

Re: Religion

Who thinks I'm a quack now?

I don't think you're a quack. I think you're fantastic. Jonathan Livingston Seagull had a huge impact on me too. I first read it when I was in the 8th grade, and I reread it again just a year ago. I've not read anything else by Bach, though. I need to.

I love how you describe us dying and being reborn in other forms. It's very similar to my thoughts on God being in Nature, creating and destroying and creating again.

I also think it's interesting that you kept searching for spiritual answers after losing your faith in catholicism. So did you ever consider atheism at all? Or have you always been spiritual? Or am I totally misunderstanding your post?

And does this:

We are not sent to hell, but rather the quality of energy within our spirit-as-a-whole determines the polarity of our future existences

mean that you believe in Karma?

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Religion

I have to say that your thoughts on this are an amazingly eloquent summation of a lot of my opinions, actually. I feel religious only to the extent that I feel awe at the natural process that I'm a part of. I remember learning that energy can't be created or destroyed as a child and feeling very comforted in that thought for some reason... the idea that when I die a part of me will never go away negates a lot of my worry, and that fact is scientifically provable. My experiences with hallucinogens as well have assisted me with perception and humility in particular; the idea of being comfortable and content with my role in existence and enjoying the pure adventure of being alive.

I felt none of this when I was at church, I think, which is what lead me away. When the focus turns to morality in the church as it always does, it becomes debatable and subjective. I think intelligent people in general always feel a sort of uneasiness at generalizing right and wrong, but are taught to stifle their doubt in the name of faith.

[Trathena]

Re: Religion

I've never taken hallucinogens. I know it's stupid, but it scares the hell out of me that I might see something that's not there. The thought of "mind expansion" is incredibly intriguing, but I'm still too scared.

I never really had a "spiritual experience" in church either, Brock. I loved the music. But I remember when I was going through catechism and studying to get confirmed, they told us over and over that we'd "feel the Holy Spirit" when we pledged whatever it was we were pledging. But when the priest blessed me . . . nothing. I kept waiting for some special, deep something to occur withing me, but no. Of course, being catholic, I blamed myself. :-)

I have had some amazing spiritual experiences, but never in a religious sense.

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Religion

Do you trust that everything you perceive normally is actually there? How much of what you know is there do you not perceive at this very moment?

That's my point with hallucinogens. They make you aware of how little you are aware of.

[Trathena]

Re: Religion

I do trust that what I see is actually there. I've never given it much thought but . . . yeah, I do trust that. huh.

I just don't know. My spouse has assured me that all I need is to be with someone I trust (i.e., him), and I'll be fine. And the thing is, I'm very, very interested in using them just to see what I would see, you know?

But it's scary too. And I'm usually not so timid. It's just the idea of not being in any control of what I'm seeing or experiencing. And it could be frightening images, and I'd not be able to do anything about it.

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Religion

I do trust that what I see is actually there. I've never given it much thought but . . . yeah, I do trust that. huh.

I just don't know. My spouse has assured me that all I need is to be with someone I trust (i.e., him), and I'll be fine. And the thing is, I'm very, very interested in using them just to see what I would see, you know?

But it's scary too. And I'm usually not so timid. It's just the idea of not being in any control of what I'm seeing or experiencing. And it could be frightening images, and I'd not be able to do anything about it.

If you go into it knowing that what you're experiencing is a change in perception and not actually the walls moving, you'll be fine. My recommendations are the following:

1) If you're going to feel uncomfortable hallucinating in front of someone else, then don't. Be alone. Most people feel comfortable having someone they love or feel close to be there with them. If you would prefer he stay sober then ask him to.

2) Make sure you don't have anything serious planned for the day afterwards, and if you can, turn off/unplug your phones.

3) Make sure your environment is comfortable. Get some good music. Make the lighting nice.

4) Try and time your hallucination to begin about 30 or 45 minutes before the sun sets, and if you can, watch it. It's an awe-inspiring and very comfortable moment.

5) If you ever start freaking out at all, just step outside. Nature always brings you back.

It really isn't that dangerous if you're smart about it. Just treat it with the respect it deserves and you'll reap plenty of benefits from the experience.

As far as not being in control of what you're seeing and experiencing... when are you ever?