The Birth Certificate debate rages on

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

I was just sent this a few minutes ago. The guy that sent it isn't a tea party quack or anything. I'd consider him a moderate and he doesn't typicall send this type of stuff around. It is really hard to argue with, though. Some of the letters I think were just smudged or not hit hard enough, but the E shows clear differences

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=308397

I did really question the timing of the release. Why wait so long? It seems like he would have produced that document 2 years ago if it actually existed.

I'm sure this will incite some fiery responses from our board demoquacks.

[SimpatiK]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

I thought it was Donald Trump the first time?

Anyhow

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

This is a joke right?

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

This is a joke right?

Unfortunately, no, and the guy makes very legit points.

It really doesn't matter to me, but the timing of the release of the document was pretty sketchy. Why would he sit on it for 2 years if the document was available? Just to piss people off? Why wouldn't he end the argument straight away, and nip it in the bud?

I'm not a birther and I don't care where he was born, but I do care about the possibility that the POTUS committed fraud and forged an official document about his personal history. I don't see how anyone wouldn't be extremely disturbed by that, if true.

[Knifeboy]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

"Why wouldn't he end the argument straight away, and nip it in the bud?"

Uuuhmm.. Because if he had to cater to every whim of crazy conspiracy theorists he wouldn't be doing anything else?

Then after 2 years, and Donald Trump being a mediawhore to gain ratings, he had no choice?

don't be an idiot

[FeebleFables]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

Why would he sit on it for 2 years if the document was available? Just to piss people off? Why wouldn't he end the argument straight away, and nip it in the bud?

Because he already produced what was required. He spent the rest of his time watching birthers eat themselves, until it became too ridiculous.

Right? Like, isn't this it in a nutshell? Occam's razor and all that?

Either way, I agree with Bill Maher, all of this bullshit is just thinly veiled racism attempting to dehumanize and illegitemize him.

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

Uuuhmm.. Because if he had to cater to every whim of crazy conspiracy theorists he wouldn't be doing anything else?

Then after 2 years, and Donald Trump being a mediawhore to gain ratings, he had no choice?

Those two statements clearly contradict each other. Trump was bringing nothing new to the argument, so why even respond? You say "don't be an idiot," but please don't explain how any single thing I have said is less than objective.

Seriously, the guy makes legitimate points that have not been debunked. Feel free to do so, or you could just resort to an endless string of strawmen.
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Either way, I agree with Bill Maher, all of this bullshit is just thinly veiled racism attempting to dehumanize and illegitemize him.

Agreeing with Bill Maher is no way to go through life. That guy is worse than Rush Limbaugh at parroting the cause. Dehumanize? Really? I don't see anyone claiming he's half-donkey or born of some sort of succubus.

Of course it is attempting to illegitimize him. That is the nature of politics. Bill Maher has spent the entire 21st century trying to illegitimize Geoge W. Bush.

I am a political independent and civil servant. As a civil servant, the more liberal policies directly benefit me. However, I also have to look through an altruistic lens at all policies. I don't like the little bastard running my state, and he's a republican. If Ron Paul, who I support, were to commit felony forgery, I'd take issue with it and no longer support him. From my perspective, there is definite evidence of a forgery taking place in this instance. Feel free to support your guy, but don't expect me to.

[FeebleFables]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

Agreeing with Bill Maher is no way to go through life. That guy is worse than Rush Limbaugh at parroting the cause.

Oh, I should never agree with Bill Maher on any point he ever makes? Ok man. What if it's a point I make that he happens to agree with, should I reverse my view, because Bill Maher may share it? Get over yourself.

You may ignore the loud voices on each side out of some sort of spite, but I don't. Everybody has a voice worth listening to as long as rational points are being made. If we ignored everybody that puts their foot in their mouth we'd be ignoring everyone. Especially you (sorry, I had to)

Dehumanize? Really? I don't see anyone claiming he's half-donkey or born of some sort of succubus.

Oh settle down. Being referred to as "that one" is as dehumanizing as anything.

Of course it is attempting to illegitimize him. That is the nature of politics. Bill Maher has spent the entire 21st century trying to illegitimize Geoge W. Bush.

Not the same thing. Making fun of somebody for constantly saying stupid shit isn't attempting to make them illegitemate, it's simply less-than-astute observation.

And it's certainly a far cry from a centrist president being called a communist or Hitler.

[Gnomad]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

It's interesting, but I'd like to know a few things before I accept this. First, the politics of this expert are something I would definitely like to know because it would absolutely play a factor in his judgement. Second, I'd like to have a second expert take a look and see if they come to the same conclusion. Third, I'd like to know exactly how birth certificates were printed up back then. As far as I can tell, the only word in the entire document that has questionable lettering is the word "Student". The rest of it appears that certain words are printed in the same type, and depending on how birth certificates were put together back then, this might explain a lot. And fourth, a birth certificate from the same hospital in the same year, preferably same day, would be nice for comparison.

As it stands, this really isn't enough to make a call either way.

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

centrist president

Yeah, okay. Keep spending money we don't have and claim to be centrist...
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Not the same thing. Making fun of somebody for constantly saying stupid shit isn't attempting to make them illegitemate, it's simply less-than-astute observation.

You and I both know that Bill Maher went WAY farther than making jokes about Bushisms.
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Oh settle down. Being referred to as "that one" is as dehumanizing as anything.

Please show a use of "that one" in the current context. You are pulling in outside arguments with no relevance to THIS article. Try to stay on point here.

Of course no one tried to dehumanize Dubya:


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Oh, I should never agree with Bill Maher on any point he ever makes? Ok man. What if it's a point I make that he happens to agree with, should I reverse my view, because Bill Maher may share it? Get over yourself.

You may ignore the loud voices on each side out of some sort of spite, but I don't. Everybody has a voice worth listening to as long as rational points are being made. If we ignored everybody that puts their foot in their mouth we'd be ignoring everyone. Especially you (sorry, I had to)

I'm not saying that you can't agree with ideas of his, but when you start a statement off with "I agree with Bill Maher," that statement's credibility takes an instant hit in my view. Same as "I agree with Rush Limbaugh", "I agree with Sarah Palin", or "I agree with Al Sharpton." Sorry, but they are sensationalist idiots who strive on building hatred among us.

[Knifeboy]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

Those two statements clearly contradict each other. Trump was bringing nothing new to the argument, so why even respond? You say "don't be an idiot," but please don't explain how any single thing I have said is less than objective.

You were saying he had to go and bring out his birth certificate as soon as some nutter (Hillary Clinton) questioned his birthplace.
Which I claim would have led to an endless string of requests for obama to bend over whenever another conspiracy theory arose (which, in america, happens every fucking day)

How is that in any way contradictory to the fact that after teabaggers harping on about it for 2 years, suddenly Donald Trump (not just your every day conspiracy theorist, but one insanely rich asshole who claimed he wanted to run for president) the media pressure became high enough that he had to comply?

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

It's interesting, but I'd like to know a few things before I accept this. First, the politics of this expert are something I would definitely like to know because it would absolutely play a factor in his judgement. Second, I'd like to have a second expert take a look and see if they come to the same conclusion. Third, I'd like to know exactly how birth certificates were printed up back then. As far as I can tell, the only word in the entire document that has questionable lettering is the word "Student". The rest of it appears that certain words are printed in the same type, and depending on how birth certificates were put together back then, this might explain a lot. And fourth, a birth certificate from the same hospital in the same year, preferably same day, would be nice for comparison.

As it stands, this really isn't enough to make a call either way.

I totally agree that it should be reviewed by someone else. However, there is also a distinct difference between the K in BARACK and the K in Kalanianoli. Some of it can certainly be attributed to smudging and inconsistent keystroke, but it definitely piqued my interest.

Again, I'm not a birther. I don't care if he was born in Kenya. If someone moves here before they are 5 years old, I think they are as American as I am. However, like I said, I take forgery and fraud very seriously with government documents. That WOULD be a serious issue for me if proven true.

[Knifeboy]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

lol, i finally looked at the link and those letters could easily have come from the same typewriter


are people seriously forgetting how typewriters work

they are not computers

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

You were saying he had to go and bring out his birth certificate as soon as some nutter (Hillary Clinton) questioned his birthplace.
Which I claim would have led to an endless string of requests for obama to bend over whenever another conspiracy theory arose (which, in america, happens every fucking day)

How is that in any way contradictory to the fact that after teabaggers harping on about it for 2 years, suddenly Donald Trump (not just your every day conspiracy theorist, but one insanely rich asshole who claimed he wanted to run for president) the media pressure became high enough that he had to comply?

So, the first two years of pressure didn't matter? The first presidential opponent didn't matter? This isn't some issue that died for two years and came back. People have been harping on this (like you said) the entire time. I just can't come up with a reasonable reason why you would sit on this easily obtainable document for 2 years if you planned to ever release it. I'm sorry, but it is sketchy as hell.

[Knifeboy]

Re: The Birth Certificate debate rages on

So, the first two years of pressure didn't matter? The first presidential opponent didn't matter? This isn't some issue that died for two years and came back. People have been harping on this (like you said) the entire time. I just can't come up with a reasonable reason why you would sit on this easily obtainable document for 2 years if you planned to ever release it. I'm sorry, but it is sketchy as hell.

I don't think they ever claimed it was easy to dig up some document stored somewhere in bureaucratic limbo


Look, if you really want to be a concerned citizen, then stop jumping on the bandwagon of some crackpot conspiracy theorist who's only real accomplishment is to obscure the actual news and troubles worth talking about in america today.
Yes the government lies to you. Every single day. About issues extremely more important than this

If americans keep focusing their energy on stuff like this, eventually this will be all politics is about. You're frightingly close already