Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

[Ars Sycro]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

I still need to listen to all the stuff I downloaded from his website a few weeks ago.

[evasivetear]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

you will not be disappointed. and if you are, you're wrong.

[Ars Sycro]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

Well, I am often wrong. As people here will attest to.

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

if they are going to play music for a living they are putting themselves out there for judgement. people have a right to have an opinion about it. you and some other on the board are too close to the band. you'll never see any wrong in anything they do and you always feel like you have to defend them. i'm kind of glad that i never got that close. how do you tell your friends you think their music sucks? you don't. so i understand where you are coming from too.

Again, I'm not saying people don't have a right to an opinion. And frankly I think that people should question the type of critique that you wouldn't offer to a friend. That's exactly the point.

I don't like lots of parts of this album, and yes, I've told people in the band directly. They certainly don't expect everyone to think that what they're producing is perfect no matter what. The same goes for lots of bands that I know. The guys in Water & Bodies know that I, and everyone else, think that what they've done in that project isn't nearly as unique and well-done as Kaddisfly.

I mean, really, when you take the criticism of "those lyrics could be written by a 12 year old," what exactly does that mean? They're simple? They're immature? They're short words? Let's compare them to some songs that have actually been called brilliant and sold millions of copies around the world:

"Breathe, breathe in the air.
Don't be afraid to care.
Leave, but don't leave me.
Look around, choose your own ground."

"You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will live as one."

"Hey mama, said the way you move
Gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove."



"[insert every lyric to every Michael Jackson song ever]"

I don't expect people to adhere to my perspective on this. I just find that kind of critique empty and impossible to engage. When you say something like that, not only does it insult the intelligence of the person that actually worked on it, it also insults the intelligence of anyone else that enjoys it. I don't think its conducive to a good discussion. And since this is a discussion board, that's why I'm bringing it up.

Now, if you want to talk about how the lyrics in these songs are so straightforward and general that they don't inspire a lot of thought or interest from you... then not only will I understand, I'll also agree with you (for the most part). I realize that critiquing fine art is difficult to do; its the reason why sites like Pitchfork are hated by pretty much every musician I know. But I think that expressing it the right way can make a big difference and provide a lot of value for other people too.

[sangreal314]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

Again, I'm not saying people don't have a right to an opinion. And frankly I think that people should question the type of critique that you wouldn't offer to a friend. That's exactly the point.

I don't like lots of parts of this album, and yes, I've told people in the band directly. They certainly don't expect everyone to think that what they're producing is perfect no matter what. The same goes for lots of bands that I know. The guys in Water & Bodies know that I, and everyone else, think that what they've done in that project isn't nearly as unique and well-done as Kaddisfly.

I mean, really, when you take the criticism of "those lyrics could be written by a 12 year old," what exactly does that mean? They're simple? They're immature? They're short words? Let's compare them to some songs that have actually been called brilliant and sold millions of copies around the world:

"Breathe, breathe in the air.
Don't be afraid to care.
Leave, but don't leave me.
Look around, choose your own ground."

"You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will live as one."

"Hey mama, said the way you move
Gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove."



"[insert every lyric to every Michael Jackson song ever]"

I don't expect people to adhere to my perspective on this. I just find that kind of critique empty and impossible to engage. When you say something like that, not only does it insult the intelligence of the person that actually worked on it, it also insults the intelligence of anyone else that enjoys it. I don't think its conducive to a good discussion. And since this is a discussion board, that's why I'm bringing it up.

Now, if you want to talk about how the lyrics in these songs are so straightforward and general that they don't inspire a lot of thought or interest from you... then not only will I understand, I'll also agree with you (for the most part). I realize that critiquing fine art is difficult to do; its the reason why sites like Pitchfork are hated by pretty much every musician I know. But I think that expressing it the right way can make a big difference and provide a lot of value for other people too.

i'm not even the one that made the comment. i'm sure the person didn't mean it literally. they don't really believe that a 12 year old could write these lyrics. it's just a figure of speech. i jumped in because you always jump in and defend dredg and try to spin things. but like i said i understand why you do it. but i don't think it's necessary that you do it every time something says something negative about them. just out of curiosity, when you tell someone from dredg you don't like a song or when you tell w&b that it's not as good as kaddisfly, what is their reaction? just brush it off, do they get offended or do they actually agree with you? i would guess it's probably the latter. i just wonder if they know what they are doing isn't as good or if they are delusional.

[Gnomad]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

i just wonder if they know what they are doing isn't as good or if they are delusional.

That's a weird way to phrase that. Isn't that subjective? The options are either they admit what they do isn't as good as whatever you're comparing it to (not sure if you're talking about dredg's previous material or kaddisfly), or they're delusional? Couldn't the third option be they personally believe what they do is as good or better?

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

"Breathe, breathe in the air.
Don't be afraid to care.
Leave, but don't leave me.
Look around, choose your own ground."

"Regardless of if it was wrong
Even if it was right
They went down without a fight
Down without a fight"

Keep in mind that my comment was very clearly directed at those 4 lines. I really do think there are 12 year olds out there that could do much better. If you don't, you are being silly. Kids are bright these days. Seriously, though, the second line states the EXACT same thing as the first line without the use of double negatives. I would consider that juvenile writing. It definitely comes across as extremely amateur. Again, I know Gavin can do better and that is why I care. Lowering your standards for the sake of lowering your standards is how you end up with an STD.

As for Breathe, that verse you posted is WAY better than what you're comparing it to. There is depth and interpretation involved.
---

Couldn't the third option be they personally believe what they do is as good or better?

I think that's what he is considering delusional.
---

Again, I'm not saying people don't have a right to an opinion. And frankly I think that people should question the type of critique that you wouldn't offer to a friend. That's exactly the point.

I don't like lots of parts of this album, and yes, I've told people in the band directly. They certainly don't expect everyone to think that what they're producing is perfect no matter what.

So, the $1M question is: When you told them how you feel, did you get the impression that they felt this was their best work?

[Chroma]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

Anyone find a non-webstream sourced leak yet?

[FeebleFables]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

See, and I just take a more direct approach to it: Gavin needs to shape up or I’m going to stop listening to new dredg and maybe to stop supporting them and going to see their shows. It’s that bad. I have no loyalty to bands themselves, my only loyalty is to good music, and if I’m not enjoying it, what’s the point of supporting it? I still love their old stuff, but when a majority of a set is new stuff, why am I there? I know I’m probably on the extreme end in this regard but… But after hearing this album... sorry.

We can argue until we’re blue in the face about opinions as the WHY the lyrics and vocals are bad, whether it’s stated with respect like “I dislike them” or more obtuse like “they are a pile of baboon shit”. But the end result remains the same, people are being turned off by them, people who became fans of them after being shown proficiency. Even if you think the vocals are good, or fine, there’s no denying that many people are speaking out against them. It’s a pretty obvious situation. Gavin doesn’t have to do anything he doesn’t want to, he doesn’t have to try harder if he doesn’t want to, but it appears they’re going to lose fans if he doesn’t. It’s his choice. Any artist can choose to heed critics or ignore them. Being obtuse in the criticism just drives home the severity. Like rotten tomatoes of old.

Who knows, maybe they attract listeners because of the simplicity, but when they lose others because of it, what’s the point? To me, dredg was never a band that was going to be able to break into the mainstream anyway, so why try? The mainstream has a tight set of ‘rules’ that bands need to fall into, and in my opinion, dredg would never be able to fall within those rules. So why not follow the other path? Why not try to be as progressive as possible, to wow that fanbase? Most people I know believe they had the potential to be this generation’s Pink Floyd, so why not try to spill into the mainstream on merit alone like Pink Floyd did, rather than court listeners with catchiness when you don’t have the arms to throw properly?

And if dredg’s intentions were ALWAYS to do what they want with no concern for the listener, or appeal, then I suppose I’m confused with some of their songs. But like I said, the end result is the same, they’re losing me, and it appears others as well. It’s unfortunate, but there’s always going to be good music to find.

[sangreal314]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

See, and I just take a more direct approach to it: Gavin needs to shape up or I’m going to stop listening to new dredg and maybe to stop supporting them and going to see their shows. It’s that bad. I have no loyalty to bands themselves, my only loyalty is to good music, and if I’m not enjoying it, what’s the point of supporting it? I still love their old stuff, but when a majority of a set is new stuff, why am I there? I know I’m probably on the extreme end in this regard but… But after hearing this album... sorry.

We can argue until we’re blue in the face about opinions as the WHY the lyrics and vocals are bad, whether it’s stated with respect like “I dislike them” or more obtuse like “they are a pile of baboon shit”. But the end result remains the same, people are being turned off by them, people who became fans of them after being shown proficiency. Even if you think the vocals are good, or fine, there’s no denying that many people are speaking out against them. It’s a pretty obvious situation. Gavin doesn’t have to do anything he doesn’t want to, he doesn’t have to try harder if he doesn’t want to, but it appears they’re going to lose fans if he doesn’t. It’s his choice. Any artist can choose to heed critics or ignore them. Being obtuse in the criticism just drives home the severity. Like rotten tomatoes of old.

Who knows, maybe they attract listeners because of the simplicity, but when they lose others because of it, what’s the point? To me, dredg was never a band that was going to be able to break into the mainstream anyway, so why try? The mainstream has a tight set of ‘rules’ that bands need to fall into, and in my opinion, dredg would never be able to fall within those rules. So why not follow the other path? Why not try to be as progressive as possible, to wow that fanbase? Most people I know believe they had the potential to be this generation’s Pink Floyd, so why not try to spill into the mainstream on merit alone like Pink Floyd did, rather than court listeners with catchiness when you don’t have the arms to throw properly?

And if dredg’s intentions were ALWAYS to do what they want with no concern for the listener, or appeal, then I suppose I’m confused with some of their songs. But like I said, the end result is the same, they’re losing me, and it appears others as well. It’s unfortunate, but there’s always going to be good music to find.

i'm seriously debating not buying the cd. i mean i always buy cd's of bands i like. but why would i buy this one? i like 3 songs. should i buy it just because i like these guys? i don't think i should. i'm still going to see them live. i have faith they will make the songs more interesting live. but if they don't , yea i would also stop going to see them every time they come around.

[Fawst]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

See, and I just take a more direct approach to it: Gavin needs to shape up or I’m going to stop listening to new dredg and maybe to stop supporting them and going to see their shows. It’s that bad. I have no loyalty to bands themselves, my only loyalty is to good music, and if I’m not enjoying it, what’s the point of supporting it? I still love their old stuff, but when a majority of a set is new stuff, why am I there? I know I’m probably on the extreme end in this regard but… But after hearing this album... sorry.

You mean there isn't a SHRED of curiosity on your part as to how they'll do these songs live? Well, whatever, be thankful that you were able to make a decision like that for free, because I can only imagine the rage you'd be feeling if you bought the CD.

And this is based on ONE album that you didn't like? Or has this been a slow burn of offense you've been taking, dating back to a prior album? I just can't imagine saying you're done with a band, full-stop, because of one release.

[FeebleFables]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

You mean there isn't a SHRED of curiosity on your part as to how they'll do these songs live? Well, whatever, be thankful that you were able to make a decision like that for free, because I can only imagine the rage you'd be feeling if you bought the CD.

And this is based on ONE album that you didn't like? Or has this been a slow burn of offense you've been taking, dating back to a prior album? I just can't imagine saying you're done with a band, full-stop, because of one release.

No, it started with CWA, a couple songs made me shake my head in bewilderment, more on PPD, especially lyrcically, but I overcame it by trying to ignore it and focusing on the music. Can't do that on this one... I'm hard pressed to find any song I like on this album. It has moments, but that's about it.

[Fawst]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

Fair enough, then. I would have been astounded if it was just this.

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

See, and I just take a more direct approach to it: Gavin needs to shape up or I’m going to stop listening to new dredg and maybe to stop supporting them and going to see their shows. It’s that bad. I have no loyalty to bands themselves, my only loyalty is to good music, and if I’m not enjoying it, what’s the point of supporting it? I still love their old stuff, but when a majority of a set is new stuff, why am I there? I know I’m probably on the extreme end in this regard but… But after hearing this album... sorry.

We can argue until we’re blue in the face about opinions as the WHY the lyrics and vocals are bad, whether it’s stated with respect like “I dislike them” or more obtuse like “they are a pile of baboon shit”. But the end result remains the same, people are being turned off by them, people who became fans of them after being shown proficiency. Even if you think the vocals are good, or fine, there’s no denying that many people are speaking out against them. It’s a pretty obvious situation. Gavin doesn’t have to do anything he doesn’t want to, he doesn’t have to try harder if he doesn’t want to, but it appears they’re going to lose fans if he doesn’t. It’s his choice. Any artist can choose to heed critics or ignore them. Being obtuse in the criticism just drives home the severity. Like rotten tomatoes of old.

Who knows, maybe they attract listeners because of the simplicity, but when they lose others because of it, what’s the point? To me, dredg was never a band that was going to be able to break into the mainstream anyway, so why try? The mainstream has a tight set of ‘rules’ that bands need to fall into, and in my opinion, dredg would never be able to fall within those rules. So why not follow the other path? Why not try to be as progressive as possible, to wow that fanbase? Most people I know believe they had the potential to be this generation’s Pink Floyd, so why not try to spill into the mainstream on merit alone like Pink Floyd did, rather than court listeners with catchiness when you don’t have the arms to throw properly?

And if dredg’s intentions were ALWAYS to do what they want with no concern for the listener, or appeal, then I suppose I’m confused with some of their songs. But like I said, the end result is the same, they’re losing me, and it appears others as well. It’s unfortunate, but there’s always going to be good music to find.

Very well-stated from start to finish. I refuse to be a fanboy and gobble up duck crap like it's foie gras. I love the music that they poured their hearts into. The perfectionism in the guys is what made me fall in love with the band and their music. That perfectionism has been thrown aside like a wad of kleenex and semen, it seems. Unfortunately, I was one of those swimmers in the wad.
---

i'm seriously debating not buying the cd. i mean i always buy cd's of bands i like. but why would i buy this one? i like 3 songs. should i buy it just because i like these guys? i don't think i should. i'm still going to see them live. i have faith they will make the songs more interesting live. but if they don't , yea i would also stop going to see them every time they come around.

I'm not buying the CD unless it comes along with a nice-looking shirt. I did the pre-order before hearing and thought I'd just give them my money as my way of supporting them, but their label or someone screwed up that preorder royally. As such, they have lost one sale, mine. I will support them with my dollars, but I won't support this album with my dollars. When they decide to put forth the effort, I'll pay for it with the money that I put so much effort into earning.

[efpdwd]

Re: Album Discussion: Chuckles and Mr. Squeezy

"Regardless of if it was wrong
Even if it was right
They went down without a fight
Down without a fight"

Keep in mind that my comment was very clearly directed at those 4 lines. I really do think there are 12 year olds out there that could do much better. If you don't, you are being silly. Kids are bright these days. Seriously, though, the second line states the EXACT same thing as the first line without the use of double negatives. I would consider that juvenile writing. It definitely comes across as extremely amateur. Again, I know Gavin can do better and that is why I care. Lowering your standards for the sake of lowering your standards is how you end up with an STD.

Seriously? In the context of the verse lyrics and the message of the song, the words chosen for the chorus are simply perfect.