Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound was

[BentTwig]

Re: re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound

who really cares if its true or not? believe what you want, especially if it makes you enjoy the album more.

Last I checked this was a forum where opinions were shared for the members to view, so thats exactly what I was doing. I'm pretty sure some other people care too, since their's been people saying they enjoyed reading it and responding.

[Knifeboy]

Someone should dig up those two other translated german interviews

[BentTwig]

Someone should dig up those two other translated german interviews

For sure, that would be really great.

[StalkIncubus2012]

Re: re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound

I'm pretty sure some other people care too, since their's been people saying they enjoyed reading it and responding.

Well..i'm one of those people who said they enjoyed reading it...but I wouldnt ask drew...but whatever

[BentTwig]

Re: re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound

Well..i'm one of those people who said they enjoyed reading it...but I wouldnt ask drew...but whatever

I guess thats the difference between twigs and stalking evolutionary primates, i just ask the dumb questions that I think are really great... by the way where is that damn monolith, Ive been wanting some evolution of my own... twigs get no respect.

[cyrinic]

re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound wa

those german interviews were the ones that i quoted way back when this thread was still alive.


it's in the thread "dredg - visions mag scans [2002 & 2005]"
the translated article: http://www.sandra-fielitz.de/dredg.html
thanks to futuresmydesign, the coolest person in the universe.

[TheRuleofThree]

re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound wa

I've been away and haven't had a chance to read this that much, but I'll add my two cents to this.

This discussion comes up about one a month for some reason, and to this day I still find it intruiging that so many people have to find reasons why the band came up with a different sound for a new record. My opinions on this are as follows.

1) Our concepts of "pop" and "mainstream" are misused terms that we simply use to label music that sometimes has the same structure or melodic progression that commercially successful music uses. If something sounds like it has a standard structure (intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus/outro) or sounds more catchy (less odd instrumentation, more vocal-centered where people can sing along more, etc.) then people refer to it as pop or mainstream because the average song that gets a lot of radio airplay has those same qualities.

2) It is ignorant to assume that songs written in this structure are written with the sole intention to simply sell music or make a statement against music that sells well. Sometimes songs just come out like this, and it's not necessarily to make money or make a statement on people that make money from songs like that.

3) Anyone who has ever been in a band or has ever played music can attest to the fact that it's sort of hard to write anything to "sound" a certain way. Oftentimes the music just comes out of you and you do your best to arrange it and give it the sound that it seems to require. But a band like dredg who just endlessly jams and then arranges from there simply does not sit down and say "let's write an album that sounds like everything else." They write their music and then see where it takes them.

4) Frankly, this album is not simple. To me anyway. A lot of the lyrics allude to themselves, and the album is complete as a single philisophical entity aware of itself. It never contradicts itself and never sends out different messages, which is very, very, very hard to do. If you have questions about this, let me know, and I'll explain further.

5) Interscope loves dredg and dredg loves Interscope. They have freedom and were never told to change their music to any specific sound. Most of us have watched as songs like "Not That Simple" and "Tanbark" have changed from our original listens of the live tracks, and all those changes were artisitic decisions made by dredg. There is no big bad record company that everyone who listens to unpopular bands would like to believe in.

I could go on all day about this, but I will simply leave it at this. You can interpret the lyrics however you want. That is what is beautiful about them. And yes, the song "Catch Without Arms" directly addresses the sort of gimmicky commercialized product rock. But dredg creates their own music, with the intentions only to make great music that they love. Dino has even gone so far as to say that "Zebra Skin" is his favorite song on the album -oddly enough, because its so different from everything else they've written. Kind of funny when so many people complain, saying it sounds like "everything else."

The secret is to ignore the radio, ignore what people tell you is good and band and popular and unpopular, and just listen to music for what it is. What dredg does has nothing to do with any other band. Remember this is someone's art.

[BentTwig]

Re: re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound

I just thought I comment on your statements, since I respect them, and I have nothing to do right now.

I regret ever using the word "mainstream" to describe this album. Poor judgement, and it was also stupid for me to think Interscope affected the album, very noobish of me. Also looking back on some of my statements, I regret saying a lot of things, but I definately don't regret saying that the lyrics explain why the album is simpler musically.
"It is ignorant to assume that songs written in this structure are written with the sole intention to ..... make a statement against music that sells well." But isn't that what the title track is, a statement against singing "about love, and sing about lust, so they will care," or music that sells well? I know that wasn't their sole intention, but I'm a little confused on that statement.

This is an actual question, not a retorical question trying to prove my point. Didn't they say that they set out to make a completely different album? So was this truly what "came out of them" or did they have to shape it and mold it to make it sound like they wanted to? (I'm not trying to prove that they wrote the album to make it more popular)

On your point 4, I agree wholeheartedly with what you said, but in a way. Your saying that the album is not simple do to all the complexities of the lyrics (which is somewhat why where here, to try and understand them better). I cannot argue that statement, but just looking at the actual music, I believe that it is fairly simple, escpecially by dredg standards. I already listed why i thought it was simple earlier in my first response. Lyrically, I believe that this album is more mature and complex than the other two albums, but musically, not so much.

Thanks for saying this too... "The secret is to ignore the radio, ignore what people tell you is good and band and popular and unpopular, and just listen to music for what it is. What dredg does has nothing to do with any other band. Remember this is someone's art"
I really agree, Thats why I don't listen to the radio and popular music anymore, and thats also why when I wear a dredg shirt and someone says "I like dredg too, I heard "Bug Eyes" on the radio and I love it, you should check out this band too" I just ignore them since they sure they have good enough taste to like dredg, but their just another cronie that follows whats popular (Ya this has happened to me several times)


If anyones interested (doubtful but I'm wired and so bored right now and I like doing it so I'm doing it anyway) Heres my interpretation of Uplifting News which also really heavily adds to my lyric theory, since it is on the import version of the album.

"You shouldn't revert back to way you used to be you know it will only help you in the end" The way that dredg used to be before the album was, as stated earlier, more complex and artsy. I think Gavins saying that the hawk, which i believe is a symbol for like his concious or something like that, is telling Gavin that in order to be better off, they should change (band and album theme) to simpler music.

"Save your stories cause they're all the same" This is a stretch, but he could be refering to the leitmotif story.
"You've had your glory Throw it all away" Their glory can be found in the masterpiece complex albums of their previous years and their throwing away the complex style for their new album.
"If you don't you will never change cause give it time and watch your fame decay" I think he might be saying that they need to change to this simpler form (now) so they will be able to keep on playing music, and not let their fame decay.

"All worries. No pleasure. It will open the ultimate treasure. This is how our status is measured. This isn't pleasure."
I think Gavin was saying he was worried how the fans might react to the album (after all he did say in an interview, that they had no clue how people were going to respond to the album). I believe that the ultimate treasure is appreciation dredg and the c.d. for the art that they are. I believe "status" refers to their well status among listeners and their acceptance by fans.

Well thats my two cents (more like $5.00).

Last thanks for the thread cyrinic, that was a great read. Anyone else catch the part where they said they were thinking about making the next album with no guitars? Thats a little interesting.

[TheRuleofThree]

re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound wa

Yes, "Catch Without Arms" is a song mainly in reference to the band's desire and demand to not conform to another person's idea of what their music should be. But the album is titled as such because its good example of what the entire album is about, which is contrast and opposites. A "Catch Without Arms" isn't really much of a catch at all, is it?

When I speak of lyrical complexity, I will fully say that the lyrics on this album are much more intentional and intricate in a sense. Take, for instance, the line in "Ode To The Sun" that we all love. "Let the demons have their place/ If so, it's angels you'll create."

Fast forward to "Hungover On a Tuesday," a song about getting through an addiction. "So long to the hurt/ You'll always be there, but you are gone to me." It is an acceptance of the earlier statement; in fact, it's an example of it. By accepting the "Demon" of hurt and recognizing it's constant presence, he can then be free from it, an "angel" in itself.

There are countless instances of this, but the fact is its throughout the entire album for a reason; because the band slaved over it to make it what it is. And as far as musical complexity goes, let's take a look at the songs of "El Cielo" (excluding instrumentals)

"Same Ol' Road" - Verse/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Chorus/Outro
"Sanzen" - Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Chorus/Outro
"Triangle" - Intro/Bridge/Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Expanded Bridge/Outro
"Sorry But It's Over" - Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Chorus/Outro
"Convalescent" - Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Chorus/Outro
"Scissor Lock" - Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Chorus/Outro
"Of The Room" - Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Verse/Chorus/Outro
"It Only Took a Day" -Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Chorus/Outro
"Whoa is Me" - Verse/Chorus/Verse/Bridge/Chorus/Outro
"The Canyon Behind Her" - Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Chorus/Outro

Really, only two or three of these songs have major changes within them (Triangle, Whoa is Me, the end of Canyon). Dredg has never been an overly complex band, and no one can prove to me that they've dumbed down their music. They've simply approached their same standards from a different point of view to create a different sound, so that the majority of their song has an audible theme rather than different movements in each part.

I still fully disagree that this album is simpler. It's just not true.

[scytheX]

ive been a kinda dredg fan for about 3 years but i really only liked a two of their songs sanzen, same ol road the other tracks were just complete utter crap that could be produced in days. I mean adding some foreign drum beats mixed in with crap slam beats(other two albums before cwoa) DOES NOT make music. i saw the direction that they were heading to but it just all caved in and didnt sound right and felt a bit rushed a forced. what i noticed with cwoa is that they actually had the music flow together to make something that we've never heard before(at least imo). its just that i dont understand how anyone would call the two other albums a masterpiece. my point is, i like dredg now and i think that this is the way that they should be and im looking forward to their music from here on out.




so far dredg-catch without arms is probably the best album ive heard all my life and after listening to dredg, it makes the other bands today look like Sh**....seriously

[TheRuleofThree]

I find it, honestly, refreshing to hear someone admit that CWOA is their favorite and think that the other albums pale in comparison. My personal favorite is still "El Cielo" but I think that its good that people are falling in love to a different sound, since that is what this band is about.

I guess I am opposed to people thinking that the new record is contrived in some way.

[nickgarv7]

re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound wa

wow, finally i can voice my opinion because there is someone on here who atleast feels somewhat like I do. TheRuleOfThree has basically explained exactly what i think of when comparing El Cielo to CWA. I, personally, feel CWA is a better record. I like it more and I feel there is more maturity and musicianship on it than El Cielo. Every song is quite different. I mean go through each track and compare them. Go through El Cielo and almost every song has the same underlying tone and vibe. That's why I can't sit and listen to that album as much, because I hear 2-3 songs and I'm bored with it because they all follow basically the same structure. Don't get me wrong, El Cielo is an amazing album. Gavin's voice is far better now. The lyrics on the newer album are more personal, which I love. The music is just....Damn! I always get the vibe that people place subject matter above everything else. As in, just because it's a concept album about sleep paralysis or some grand psychological topic doesn't mean it has to be better. Now, if you just feel it's your favorite that's completely awesome. As for me, I feel CWA is a progression in songwriting for the band. oh well, just one of those topics that will always be debated..which is nice. later guys.

[BentTwig]

Re: re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound

I still fully disagree that this album is simpler. It's just not true.

We obviously have different ideas about what makes music simpler or more complex. Looking at it from a theoretical and compositional standpoint, I honestly cannot see how anyone could think that CWOA is not simpler. Also when you look at el cielo and leitmotif, I have yet to hear of any album that remotely sounds close to what those two do. That means that they were thinking completely outside the box when they were writing the albums, and they were doing something that had never been thought of or done before. Thats what makes it so fresh to me. No matter what form of popular music there is, whether rap rock or country,they all follow very similar patterns, ideas, and concepts that have already been done before. I believe dredg's first two albums barely do that, and that only adds to the compexity in my mind. WHen I listen to CWOA I hear a lot of similarities to different music that can't be found in their first two, and mainly them being rythmic patterns and chord progressions. (lots of songs/phrases/versus and chorus's that have the straight repeated eighth notes or sixteenth notes in 4 4 time that are all to popular in pop music, and especially pop punk bands or bands like Jimmy Eat World.) There is after all a whole thread on a song that sound almost too similar to "ode", but we don't know all about that yet.

scytheX, I'm gonna say (like evasive did earlier in respect to leitmotif) If you don't like most of teh songs on el cielo then your not a dredg fan, your a CWOA fan. I can't see where your coming from at all saying that leitmotif and el cielo aren't that great (never thought I'd hear someone say that on this board) but thats great that you think CWOA is the best album you've ever heard.

and nickgarv7 "Go through El Cielo and almost every song has the same underlying tone and vibe" Thats what I personally love most about el cielo. The songs all vary a lot to me, but they all have that same tone and vibe that stream together that makes an full album actual album, not just a record that has 12 singles on it. I think no other album fully grasps the concept of making a streamed together, no break, full album like el cielo that from start to finish has me fully engaged. But opinions are opinions, and i must let them be