Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound was

[StalkIncubus2012]

this is the most interesting thread that's been on traversing in a while...i'm thoroughly enjoying reading it!... Thans for the good read guys

[cyrinic]

re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound wa

i concur.

[BentTwig]

re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound wa

quote="evasivetear"]i
if you read into the lyrics the way you have, under the assumption that they're commenting on how uncomplex their album is in relation to their last, then you'll find lyrics that will match up with what you're saying...

we can even look at el cielo and make similar ties to the same theme...

again i must state that i don't believe these to be the meanings of these songs....but i hope i made my point. i dont' believe dredg compromised their art...they did something different because they wanted to and didn't want to make another el cielo again. as they've said "we could have made another el cielo but we chose to do something different" i think it's just as deep as that....

i appologize if you thought i was bashing you in this post....that wasn't my intent...you obviously put a lot of time iinto your original post and all i hope i did with this post is make you aware that you can interpet lyrics anyway you want...but that doesn't mean that that's what they were about...heh

have a good one, and welcome to the board[/quote]

I do not think that dredg has comprimised their art either. If anything, if my ideas are rihgt, I think that what they did was pure brilliance and I applaud them thouroughly.
And don't worry man, I took no offense to your post, I think it was well thought out and informative and I thank you for replying and welcoming me the noob. I also agree that my interpratiations could be completely wrong, but they seem to make to much sense to me.

I totally agree with you evasive when you say that lyrics can be interpreted in many ways. Thats one thing dredg does really well is they create lyrics that are deep and can have many meanings. I support your disagreement, but however I think your kind of stretching the point that my idea could even be interpreted in El Cielo. I think that when you look at my connections from my idea to the lyrics in CWOA, that there area very many lyrics (many which I didn't have enough time to write about) that have a very strong connection to my theory. However, your El Cielo connections to my ideas in my mind are a lot more of a stretch, kindof like your hoping them to match, not like they actually do have a strong connection. While your stretching false? (you know what i mean) interpretations can apply to el cielo there's a huge important fact you missed. (I think most people will agree with me, especially using musical theory concepts) That El Cielo is a pretty complex album, even more so than leitmotif. While the lyrics could possible make a connection, the music doesn't support this connection, it counteracts it. CWOA however, with its simplistic songs (all of them) support this theory. I'm also going to try to shed some light on your lyrical interpretations.

I was a little confused in your same ol road connection "same ol' road - they're going down the same ol' road, making a complex album, when all they want is a modest house in a modest neighborhood....so should they make a more simple album? are they trying to hard?" I was unsure how this connected to my CWOA theory. By going down the same ol road of complexity they are almost assuredly only going to be able to obtain a modest house in a modest neighborhood. With the mainstream simplicity of CWOA they could definately be making more money, and therefore moving out of that house (Oh YAh CWOA has outsold i believe both leitmotif and el Cielo).

The sanzen connection could work, but after the first few lyrics he states, "Creativity has been blocked and overtasted
Maybe in time I'll appreciate it" I beleive this line is opposite of your interpretations. Gavin wants to appreciate creativity, (which is blocked in the mainstream) so he writes a creative album.
.
On 18 people you wrote "...and that they may have to 'dumb down' their work if they want to pay rent" But how does the music support this statement. El Cielo is not (in my opinion) dumbed down. If anything it is very smart. I mean the whole concept and interconnections with the concepts and lyrics are nothing short of brilliant. And the music, nothing short of brilliant. So your connection, i believe would not work. CWOA was not as heavy as a concept album (or so most of us believe). Therefore I believe that CWOA was dumbed down.

In your whoa is me your stating that they could regret creating El Cielo as a complex album since they didn't make a lot of money, but when they were writing this song and album they had no clue how successful they would be. Ya they probably thought that it wasn't going to sell well, but they are on a major label, and it could easily happen.

Canyon you state that they could be without fans due to the complexity of the album. But el cielo grew their fanbase by leaps and bounds, and again they didn't know how people would react to it.

What I'm trying to prove here is not that your interpretations of El Cielo are wrong (Which I know you said were wrong and i agree with), but that my interpratations of CWOA do seem to make a lot of sense. I mean they did decide that the song Catch Without Arms was the song they wanted to name the album after, and therefore it and its meaning are the most important to the album, and probably a huge theme throughout the whole album. ANd the whole song is about making music that pleases more people. Even though you can interprate lyrics a certain way, they were written with something in mind, and I believe Gavin had the idea of explaining why the music is like it is in CWOA. But I could be really wrong. I believe if their next album is more complex, then I could really have a huge point. Thanks for reading this.

I would really love for anyone, whether you support my ideas or not, to go through some of my interpretations on both of my long ass posts and challenge or support them. I think this is really interesting. Until someone, whether it be the band itself or just another knowledgable listener, really challenges what I said and it makes sense to me, I think that I have a really strong case that I don't have to stretch for to make my connection. If someone has another idea about the lyrics that makes a lot of sense too, i would love to read it.

Can't wait for some responses, and I hope I didn't bore you.

[evasivetear]

i know i was stretching on making those lyric interpretations....i knew i was wrong going into them and that's why i didn't post an interpetation for every song....because i honestly couldn't.......

my point was just to show that people can gather what they want out of lyrics, regardless if they think it's blatenly obvious or a stretch...

re-reading your previous post, i feel that you have a strong base in what you believe and you did make very strong points....i just mostly disagree still becaue i just don't think that's what they were doing. i just dont think they sat down in a room and said 'let's make this main stream and simple' i think they just made songs that fit very well together and that they didn't try to complicate things this time by making cwoa very complex with chaing time signatures and lucid dreaming lyrics. i think they just set out to make a great, to the point album, and they did in my eyes (and i'm not saying at all that you dont' agree/disagree with the greatness of cwoa)

do i believe cwoa is as complex as their previous efforts, no i don't
do i think it's any less of a dredg album or less artistic, no i don't

maybe i'm just being nieve in that, and dredg has pulled the wool over my eyes....but from reading their interviews, seeing them live, talking to them and hanging out with them for a few and talking prior to and after a few shows....i just dont' feel that their songs/lyrics are saying that they compromised their art and are just holding off till the next album to be more experimental again.....(which it actually will be...that's not a hidden or unknown fact...)

but maybe i'm 100% wrong, either way, i've been thinking a lot about both of our stances on this today and it's been fun.

oh, as for the interpretation of same ol' road...you got it exactly how i meant it....but you seemed to have missed the point that i was trying to make with the interpretations...in that i was attempting to support YOUR theories through el cielo's lyrics

responding to some of your questions/comments about my previous post

sanzen
"Maybe in time I'll appreciate it" I beleive this line is opposite of your interpretations. Gavin wants to appreciate creativity, (which is blocked in the mainstream) so he writes a creative album. "
--------right, they wrote a creative album which went against the mainstream....knowing that maybe next time they should write a less creative album, and maybe they'll learn to 'appreciate it' so they could make money off it....

18 people
again you missed what i was attempting to do...i wasn't saying that 18 people was dumbed down, i was saying that maybe they were thinking that they'd have to dumb down their music on the next album so that people would get it...

whoa is me
"they had no clue how successful they would be"
i realize this...again, just placing false meaning on the lyrics....

canyon
yes, it grew their fan base by leaps and bounds, but they didn't acheive mainstream success....they couldn't afford a modest house in a modest neighborhood on the success of that album alone strengthening the regrets and doubts in their minds as to whether they should compromise their art....heh...



ok, now i'm really done with this post. again, thanks for making me think bentTwig the fact that your posts have been long and meaningful and aren't just asking us to upload a stone by stone mp3, again has been a real treat. i look forward to talking to you some more on here

[BentTwig]

re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound wa

evasive

Thanks for responding but with me being a little confused I think I confused you a little. If your still confused by the end of this Ill try to convey my thoughts better, but its somewhat hard.

You said "i know i was stretching on making those lyric interpretations....i knew i was wrong going into them and that's why i didn't post an interpetation for every song....because i honestly couldn't.......
oh, as for the interpretation of same ol' road...you got it exactly how i meant it....but you seemed to have missed the point that i was trying to make with the interpretations...in that i was attempting to support YOUR theories through el cielo's lyrics"

I knew you were stretching them on purpose to prove a point. I was challenging the connections not to say that they are bad and can't be applied to el cielo, but I was trying to show that even though you could interprate lyrics a certain way, some can be a huge stretch, and some can make a lot of sense, I believe that my interpretations do make a lot of sense, whereas they couldn't work in other stuff, thus i was not trying to argue the actual connections you made to el cielo that you knew were false, I was challenging the fact that my interpretations aren't light and just another simple interpretation of lyrics, but something that could mean a lot. I know this could sound a little confusing, because to tell you the truth I'm pretty confused too. Like a lot of debates, I just think that were melting some points together that can help both of our cases, and that can be pretty confusing.

You also said "i just dont think they sat down in a room and said 'let's make this main stream and simple' i think they just made songs that fit very well together and that they didn't try to complicate things this time by making cwoa very complex with chaing time signatures and lucid dreaming lyrics. i think they just set out to make a great, to the point album, and they did in my eyes (and i'm not saying at all that you dont' agree/disagree with the greatness of cwoa)"

I 50% agree with this statement. They made music that they felt was right, but if you compare coquette to CWOA I believe, that coquette has less of a mainstream sound (and theirs another thread on that whole subject which if you havent read i suggest you do). My belief is that someone or something influenced and help shape their music to be more mainstream, and that my lyrics interpretations somewhat prove this. I beleive that they made the music they wanted (which possibly was affected by outside sources like perhaps a record company) but they realized that they were indeed making a lot more simple album. I think that in his lyrics Gavin was trying to explain why they decided to make the album simple especially to the hardcore fans who love the experimentation. I mean how many people on this site were pretty upset witht the simplicity of the album. I was one, but when I began to believe that the lyrics were an explanation, I appreciated it so much more.

Another 50% of me though could actually disagree with them just writing what they felt was right. I mean the music industry is hard one to survive in, and they even remark on the fact that it is very hard for a relatively unheardof band like them to survive for as long as they have (being that they could easily "sell out" and make a lot of money), and Gavin also said that if he could change the music industry, he would take the word industry out of it. Maybe they actually did decide "Hey we make great music that we love, but we are not being fully rewarded for our work" So they could have decided that they wanted to make an album that would sell some more and grow their fanbase, because they deserve it (and I would completely agree with this. It pisses me off that Fucking no talent pieces of Shit like Ashley Simpson and bands like My Chemical Romance sell millions of albums while talented artists like dredg are not fully rewarded. I wish it was like 30 or 40 years ago when the best bands were popular like Pink Floyd. I mean if leitmotif or el cielo was released in that time there is no doubt in my mind that they would have sold millions and influenced millions. Fuck... I really got off topic... sorry) A lot of people would probably say that they "sold out" (And a lot of people have said this, and being that I think this is the dumbest term ever, I would disagree) But perhaps that is why gavin would write lyrics that explain why they did the album like this. I mean it does sound like a stretch, but it could make a lot of sense. I mean I think that the more people who listen to dredg the better, and if it takes a mainstream album to draw a lot more people into them, then why not just make one album that does that, then go back to ttheir experimentation, which you and others are saying they probably would. So I believe they could have indeed very slighty "sold out" ( ya i hate that word but its the only one I can come up with that has that meaning) but they decided to slightly "sell out" (Fuck I really hate that word, help me with it please) in a very artistic measure that would not comprimise their art... thus the lyrics

I mean I've been listening to dredg for a while, and prior to this album i would wear a dredg shirt, and almost no one would in my school or other places would comment saying they like the band. I, being the hardcore fan I am, preorders CWOA with the shirt and wear it a lot. Nowadays lots of people approach me saying "You like dredg, I bought CWOA and I love it they rule ect." Which is fucking sweet in my mind. Also lots of my friends have gotten into them through CWOA, then I play their other stuff and they are naturally blown away. I can say before CWOA i knew less than 5 people who knew of dredg, now I could name 20 to 30. And they all like or love them.
In either of my 50% halves about why they wrote the album, my interpretation can still be apllied.

Also dredg hasn't comprimised their art with this album, they just added to it.

You said "ok, now i'm really done with this post" I hope you just meant that individual post, because I find talking about this interesting with you, and I would like to hear what you say.

Sorry if I was confusing againd, but I'm just a simple twig and this is a very complex subject. Anyone else please join in on this topic and state your own opinions because I think that this could really shed some light on why CWOA is more mainstream (and their has to be a reason, weather its like evasive thought of it just being what it is, or my thoughts, or something completely different).

Until we speak again, peace out. Again sorry for making this really long, but i'm a dredg freak and find this more interesting than many other things, and am therefore trying to convey my thoughts fully. Its time to shed some of my leaves and sleep with my mother tree. Bye

Added after 5 minutes:

One last thing...

I was even reading the songs that they wrote that didn't make the album, like Uplifting News, and even their lyrics and styles could apply to my theory, and I'll talk about it later.

Another thing. Anyone who finds this topic at all interesting, really sit down with the music playing and follow along with the lyrics, if you havent already. If your in an altered state of mind, you know what I mean, interpretations, wheter their like mine or not will come to you and if your like me, you will get a lot pleasure out it.

[evasivetear]

Re: re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound

I 50% agree with this statement. They made music that they felt was right, but if you compare coquette to CWOA I believe, that coquette has less of a mainstream sound (and theirs another thread on that whole subject which if you havent read i suggest you do).

yah, i've posted a lot in that thread actually...and in those posts i give reasons why i don't think cwoa and coquette are that different....the main difference is that it's more raw sounding cause their demos....and not because it's any more or less mainstream

i'm not going to repost here all of what i said there...but feel free to read any of my posts there if you want to know my stance on the demo/live demos vs cwoa

[BentTwig]

re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound wa

I know this thread is kindof dead, but I pulled the courage to ask Drew in the Ask Drew section, and I'm hoping he'll reply. So maybe we'll see if I'm right. Also, if someone wants to revive this, I'd be interested just write (even though I know its a given). Peace

[Knifeboy]

Why post that question in the AskDrew section when it has been answered in every single interview they've made since the release of catch without arms?

[evasivetear]

good point...i should have mentioned that earlier in our little debate, heh

[StalkIncubus2012]

I'm not a fan of asking that either

[BentTwig]

re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound wa

No need to be hatin guys.

I've read some of their interviews, and they kindof avoid the question, or don't give what seems to be a full answer to it. I just thought I'd ask in a different way and ask about the lyrics and hope he'll answer. If there is an interview that really does fully answer this please give me a link, and I'll get rid of the question.

[Knifeboy]

There's no hate here

Hmm, if you dig around these forums using the search button, there's a couple (I think 3 in total) of german dredg interviews that has been translated by some great members of these forums, where they are asked more direct.
(here's one of them http://traversing.pinkpenguins.com/v...erview&start=0 )

But other than the german interviews, they've mentioned several times that they love interscope for giving them free hands to do what they want. I'm way too lazy to find any sources

[evasivetear]

drew might not answer you since last time someone asked about lyrics, he said to post in the Ask Gavin form...heh

[BentTwig]

re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound wa

Thanks for the link. I read it, and that really does deny some of the stuff I've been saying. I previously read some stuff they said about the topic, but all of it kindof avoided the question to me, but that answers it outright. I'm going to edit my question. However, I still believe that some of the stuff I said in this thread might be true (All say the whole having the record company and outside sources affecting the album), like the lyrics describing why the album is so simple. That was my main point after all. THanks again.

[dsv]

Re: re: Dredg & Catch Without Arms seems like it's sound

I still believe that some of the stuff I said in this thread might be true (All say the whole having the record company and outside sources affecting the album), like the lyrics describing why the album is so simple. That was my main point after all. THanks again.

who really cares if its true or not? believe what you want, especially if it makes you enjoy the album more.