Do Not Wave At Bush

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

I agree with most of that as well. But I do think that Bush is a problem. The entire system has issues like any creation of man, and it reflects the faults of all of us, certainly. But it was also expertly manipulated by people like Bush and Cheney and yes, even Clinton, Kennedy, etc.

[Starving Artist]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

Trathena, I send you and e-hug for that Lincoln quote. Where did that come from?

[cribble]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

eHugs? I'm handing those out more often me-thinks.

[Trathena]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

Trathena, I send you and e-hug for that Lincoln quote. Where did that come from?

I'll take all the e-hugs I can get. :-)

The first one is in a letter to Horace Greeley (22 August 1862). The second is from the fourth Lincoln-Douglas Debate (18 September 1858). But, yet, Lincoln also said this: "I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel." He was--like so many of our great men and women during the 19th century--a bundle of contradictions. They were products of their times. There's a wiki page of Lincoln quotes that shows him in all of his glory.

But yeah, ANKOF is right that his policies toward the south after the Civil War were inexcusably horrible. But then, the south pretty much brought that on itself.

I agree with most of that as well. But I do think that Bush is a problem. The entire system has issues like any creation of man, and it reflects the faults of all of us, certainly. But it was also expertly manipulated by people like Bush and Cheney and yes, even Clinton, Kennedy, etc.

Bush is more than a problem. Bush is an embarrassment, a disaster, and a sad reflection of our greed and small, petty cruelties here in America. Oh, and our sorry excuse of an "educational system."

Sure, we've never had "perfect" leaders. Who has? That's impossible and it would be ignorant and naive to expect it. But Bush and his administration have highlighted that we've finally reached this frightening nadir in our country. What makes me scared and cynical and shamefully apathetic is that nobody but us dirty, smelly radical leftists gave a shit until the war went to its inevitable hell and gas prices got high.

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Now playing: Ours - I Ran Away to Tell the World
via FoxyTunes

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

I keep saying that a candidate like Obama could only come after a President like Bush.

[Trathena]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

During Obama's presidency (which I expect to last eight years) this will happen:

Because we've already reached a tipping point and no amount of greenwashing is going to change this, Global Warming will only get worse. People won't understand why changing their lightbulbs hasn't "fixed it."

We'll reach peak oil (if we haven't already) and transportation will be a disaster, which will . . .

. . . further hurt the economy. China will call in their loans, and recession, if not depression will begin. Obama will raise taxes and Americans will say, "buh? wah? Tax-and-spend democrats!"

Very, very slow troop withdrawal will frustrate everyone.

Universal health care will come about, and, over their dinners at McDonald's, people will complain about their co-pays and wonder why they still have diabetes. They'll conclude, "Socialized medicine doesn't work!"

Because America is ignorant about everything, all of this will be unfairly blamed on Obama.

Those who like Obama will hail him as the second coming of Christ, and will, thus, be disappointed when the streets don't flow with milk and honey.

We'll have a conservative Republican back in office in eight years.

[BuddyGoodness]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

you mean a president cannot save a country in decline singlehandedly?

[Trathena]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

^ Awesome.

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

Peak oil is a total misnomer. We are nowhere near reaching "peak oil." There is ample oil out there, but it is much more difficult and expensive to get to. Peak oil claims tend to ignore the existence of oil sands and shale.

[Knifeboy]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

uh, you know nothing about Peak Oil theory then, because absolutely no-one is ignoring all the billions of barrels of extremely expensive oil out there.
It's about price and availability, not the amount of oil

edit to clarify: I'm not a peak oil proponent necessarily, but what you said was just flat out wrong

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

uh, you know nothing about Peak Oil theory then, because absolutely no-one is ignoring all the billions of barrels of extremely expensive oil out there.
It's about price and availability, not the amount of oil

edit to clarify: I'm not a peak oil proponent necessarily, but what you said was just flat out wrong

You have absolutely no idea how much I know about Peak Oil theory. You cannot ignore that "extremely expensive oil" or make the claim that the production has peaked. With emerging technologies such as deep ocean drilling, along with tarsands and oil shale, you cannot accurately predict what future production will be. Neither you nor I have any way of predicting innovation that could make those reserves more viable. Also, the US, as policy, has resisted tapping its own mineral resources to the point where China is about to start directional drilling in international waters to mine the oil off of Florida's coast.

The problem is that our energy policy became more an environmental policy, making the fields off of the coasts of California and Florida and the reserves at ANWR off limits. This unnaturally drives production down.

Again, "Peak Oil" is a misnomer as it is being used today.

AnewKINDofFEELING added 5 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

Also, you do realize that the wells that have been closed still contain a large amount of petroleum, right? They don't just dry up.

Also, oil does not start and stop at light, sweet crude. There's a pretty hefty amount of heavy crude out there waiting to be welled.

[Knifeboy]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

Peak oil claims tend to ignore the existence of oil sands and shale.

That's what I was reacting to, I've never seen any Peak Oil Theorist who ignored that. Their whole claim is that it's not viable to use that oil.

Like I said before, I do not necessarily agree with peak oil theory (as you say, technology gets better all the time). But the thing I quoted above, is wrong

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: Do Not Wave At Bush

I don't believe that it was wrong. As I said, it is clearly a misnomer. That doesn't mean that what the theory says is wrong, but rather that its use as a catch phrase is extremely misleading.