Funny but possibly true

[AnewKINDofFEELING]

Re: Funny but possibly true

There are a lot of people out there that don't just expect musicians to excel at music. They also expect them to be public relations professionals and social butterflies that are willing to answer every email, shake every hand, smile in every photo, and respond in all the right ways to every utterance from a fan. For a band like dredg that has experienced a moderate amount of success, it becomes hard enough. When you're someone like Maynard, you can't even leave your house without people asking you what you meant by a certain line in a song you wrote a decade ago. He has people that hang out outside of his property in Arizona. My point isn't that he has an excuse to be a dickhead - Danny Carey, for instance, has a different sort of experience, and Wayne (halycon) already shared what his interaction with him was like (although one of my best friends in Albuquerque met Danny Carey at a restaurant and said he was fantastically kind and took photos). My point is simply that it's easy for someone not in those shoes to interpret these personalities in one way when in fact we don't see the totality of their lives (the loss of privacy, the monotony of the questions asked by interviewers that most of the time don't give a shit about your art, the song requests, the unsolicited negative reviews of your music from fans that wish you would rewrite your debut, etc.). I just think that we expect far too much from musicians when the only thing we should really care about is their actual artistic output. Everything else is secondary.

To an extent. However, look at a guy like Neil Peart as an example of not dealing with the crowds. The guy hates the whole public persona thing. He hates signing autographs. He hates being told that he's amazing. He spells it out in Beyond the Lighted Stage. He just doesn't do publicity. He leaves that part for Geddy and Alex.

This is just one of those places where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I just don't believe that calling yourself an artist gives you carte blanche to be an asshole.

I deal with the public all day. I have had "community organizers" state in public hearings that I said "poor people do not deserve our help" when I said nothing of the sort. I deal with contractors that blame me for them not getting paid. They blame me for a lot of things. I would love to tell them "You're wrong, asshole. Get over it." However, I am paid good money not to be a dick. I take the abuse and keep the discourse civilized. If I snapped back, it would reflect poorly on myself, my profession, and my company. I may still be considered an expert in my field, but a lot of people would elect to avoid my services. For me, the same holds true for musicians.

If you don't agree, cool, but I'm not going to disregard my own scruples for someone else's sake.

[Jamis who?]

Re: Funny but possibly true

I love how a Maynard discussion always finds it's way into what it seems like every topic that's posted.

[Sittingsideways]

Re: Funny but possibly true

To an extent. However, look at a guy like Neil Peart as an example of not dealing with the crowds. The guy hates the whole public persona thing. He hates signing autographs. He hates being told that he's amazing. He spells it out in Beyond the Lighted Stage. He just doesn't do publicity. He leaves that part for Geddy and Alex.

This is just one of those places where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I just don't believe that calling yourself an artist gives you carte blanche to be an asshole.

I deal with the public all day. I have had "community organizers" state in public hearings that I said "poor people do not deserve our help" when I said nothing of the sort. I deal with contractors that blame me for them not getting paid. They blame me for a lot of things. I would love to tell them "You're wrong, asshole. Get over it." However, I am paid good money not to be a dick. I take the abuse and keep the discourse civilized. If I snapped back, it would reflect poorly on myself, my profession, and my company. I may still be considered an expert in my field, but a lot of people would elect to avoid my services. For me, the same holds true for musicians.

If you don't agree, cool, but I'm not going to disregard my own scruples for someone else's sake.

Yeah but a job like customer service, or administration calls for these kinds of interactions with people. Its almost guaranteed that you will have these interactions... its expected. iI know, i work retail. Does being a musician include being bothered by fans, and having to explain their path and be a public figure? The whole conversation of "do sports stars HAVE to be a role model?". The MLB, NFL, and NBA all have rules that you HAVE to answer the medias questions, and to do so in a professional matter and it comes along with the job... if your a dick then you get fined. I think that is horseshit. If you lose a game on a bad call, you shouldn't have to be forced to answer questions about it, because a terrible comment is sure to come.

My point is, just because you are popular in pop culture does not require you to do the jobs of being a public figure... and people are foolish to cut any kind of possible life changing art just because you heard someone calling their fans dumbasses. Who gives a shit... jesus.

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Funny but possibly true

To an extent. However, look at a guy like Neil Peart as an example of not dealing with the crowds. The guy hates the whole public persona thing. He hates signing autographs. He hates being told that he's amazing. He spells it out in Beyond the Lighted Stage. He just doesn't do publicity. He leaves that part for Geddy and Alex.

This is just one of those places where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I just don't believe that calling yourself an artist gives you carte blanche to be an asshole.

I deal with the public all day. I have had "community organizers" state in public hearings that I said "poor people do not deserve our help" when I said nothing of the sort. I deal with contractors that blame me for them not getting paid. They blame me for a lot of things. I would love to tell them "You're wrong, asshole. Get over it." However, I am paid good money not to be a dick. I take the abuse and keep the discourse civilized. If I snapped back, it would reflect poorly on myself, my profession, and my company. I may still be considered an expert in my field, but a lot of people would elect to avoid my services. For me, the same holds true for musicians.

If you don't agree, cool, but I'm not going to disregard my own scruples for someone else's sake.

I understand your point and you're absolutely right - no matter how we'd like to divorce an art from its communication and marketing, perceptions matter, and the way an artist behaves and interacts with others can have a profound effect on their success. There's definitely a fine line - while I'm sure most people on here would sympathize with Gavin sounding tired and frustrated when he's asked for the 100th time why they "went in a different direction" on this record, no one would defend an artist acting rude or condescending to someone that approaches them and just offers a sincere "Love your music, thanks for all you do."

I'm not saying be an artist gives carte blanche - all I'm saying is that a lot of fans (not the type of people that come to this board) feel entitled to special attention and personalized attention when they meet and interact with musicians they enjoy. And I think that feeds asshole rock star behavior. It's a vicious cycle.

[dsv]

Re: Funny but possibly true

I think the distinction (for me, at least) is that Maynard goes out of his way to be an asshole a lot of the times. I think the only other person that approaches him in that aspect is Mike Patton. Both insanely gifted vocalists. Both assholes. Patton does seem a bit more facetious about it.

how is mikey an asshole? i don't see it.

i wish you'd keep him out of this. couldn't care less about maynard though...

Good points.

good points? close the fucking thread, i say.

rule was totally on point with that one. walk-off grand slam.

[TheRuleofThree]

Re: Funny but possibly true

good points? close the fucking thread, i say.

rule was totally on point with that one. walk-off grand slam.

Ha! Thanks dude. I think I agree with his basic point, though, that no one has a right to be rude to another person for no reason. I'm routinely frustrated and taken aback by people in service situations that act as though they simply don't give a shit about me or my family and act rudely, inconsiderately, or like I'm not even there. We've all had that sort of experience. Even if the person is distracted by something in their personal life, sometimes it can come across as though they want you to know that they don't give a shit. When the person acting that way isn't a low-income worker in a shitty job supporting kids but is in actuality the leader singer in a multiplatinum band, I think I can understand where the frustration comes from.

Truly though, I think it's a matter of opinion, because I love Tool and I think very highly of Maynard. But I'm not under any illusions - I'm sure the comments and behaviors from him that I consider to be signs of honesty and intelligence can just as easily (and fairly) be interpreted as dismissive and derogatory. So yet again we're talking in circles. ANKoT said it perfectly, actually - it's mostly just the icing on the cake.

[dsv]

Re: Funny but possibly true

ANKoT

ahh, i see what you did there. anewkindofthought ;]