The Music Industry

[BentTwig]

I just thought it would be a good idea to get a discussion going about the Music Industry as of today. We could talk about everything from how bogus the grammy's are, and how mainstream artists have lost identity in their music and all the bad things associated with the industry, to some of the good things happening, like how rock is reamerging as the dominant genre (slowly but steadying) and how Bands like Mars Volta have great and growing fanbases.

Here are some starting questions that you could respond to, and post your own too.

What things do you like and dislike about the music industry?

Why do you feel that record companies try to produce streamlined repetative music, over adventurous and original music?

Why do so many people listen to bad music (AKA Ashley Simpson and that stuff)?

Do you believe that the music industry and the material it is producing is in a slump as compared to previous decades, or do you think the best music is coming out right now?

Are there labels out there that are really promoting creative music?

What do you think is the next big genre that will redifine music? And what band/artist do you think will lead the way?

This is just a start, I think that this could turn into a very interesting thread if you guys want it to. Talk about anything you want to about the industry. In school, whenever we write a paper about what we want, I write about the music industry every time, since it fascinates me. My thoughts are that music, with very small exceptions in bands like dredg and the Mars Volta ect. is so much worse than in previous decades. Of all of the eras, The Early and mid Nineties produced my favorite music, and I think it might always be that way. Im awaiting a remergence of creativity that will spark the mainstream and then grasp millions everywhere who dont want to listen to the same thing over and over again. (Come on dredg). I have a lot more to say, but I want to see what you guys have to say first.


Discuss

[Eagle Morph]

Music has definitely worsened in recent years, at least in terms of the stuff that is given some semblance of attention, either in public or the media. I have a handful of major problems with the music industry:

-The proliferation of emo/screamo/punk bands that have little to no talent whatsoever. The reason "rock" has returned to the mainstream is because of bands like My Chemical Romance and Fall Out Boy, bands that I don't consider to be at the cutting edge of rock music these days, but somehow have the mass public (read: 12-16 year old girls and lonesome boys) wrapped around their blown out microphones. And the make up and goth look? I liked it better when it was on Marilyn Manson. At least he had boobs for a while (does he still? I haven't kept track).

-The success of singers/musicians that don't write their own music. You can lump all your pop stars (The Simpson sisters, et al) in this category. If I wanted to listen to the same re-hashed music with uninspired lyrics over and over again, I'd be a Limp Bizkit fan. But I don't, so don't jam this cutesy, piss-poor "music" down my throat every other song on the radio.

-That complaint spreads into my third and final beef...at least for now...which is the lack of originality in music today. For example, a lot of people rag on Linkin Park for their simplistic sound and lyrics, and there's some basis to that. But I give them credit, because they actually sit down and come up with their sound. They've become more and more original, getting away from that rap-rock/nu-metal craze of the late 90s. I can understand the criticisms people have of their music, and that's cool. I personally have a lot of respect for Mike Shinoda (the true "musician" behind the band) and his talents. That's me. Of course, they're nowhere near the musicians dredg is, but that's not the point.

My point is this...there are not many new bands or musicians that seem to be borne out of the creation of new ideas. The bands that are at the forefront of an ever-changing rock scene, leading the way into new sounds and perspectives, are the ones that have been around for a while. Dredg, while only recently fitting into a more "refined" sound, is one of those bands. Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater, The Wallflowers...all bands with unique sounds, but other than maybe one or two songs, the mass public and media pay little attention to them.

Even Jack Johnson, an incredible musician and lyricist, has gotten stale, rehashing the same style of folk-rock the past couple albums.

I don't expect a reinvention of the wheel every album. I do expect a new set of treads though.

[One Second Clubber]

Re: The Music Industry

Ok, well I'll tell you right now that I think that I'm going to love this thread and I'm just a music lover and really don't know the "exacts" about the industry but here I go...

What things do you like and dislike about the music industry?

I love the fact that the music industry has made music a passion in almost every young persons life now. That's really what most music fans hoped for when 'rock' music was young... BUT in all reality that has been the biggest downfall to us "real" music fans. What has really ruined music is how the record labels look into selling ability more then the ability to make great music.. It's all about the dollar sign now.

Why do you feel that record companies try to produce streamlined repetitive music, over adventurous and original music?

I think this comes down to everybody thinking "short-term" as far as their job. Most record labels sign bands that will make the most money, mainstream, right now. Rather then bands that have great talent that takes time. A perfect example is Pink Floyd. They had like eight records released through their label before "Dark Side of the Moon" was release, which is one the greatest selling albums of ALL TIME. Do you really think that record labels will do that in today’s music world?!? HELL NO!!! Great musical talent doesn't just pop up over night...

Why do so many people listen to bad music (AKA Ashley Simpson and that stuff)?

Like I said before... The record labels have done a GREAT job of getting music out to the general public, which is the best and worst thing to happen to music. It's made more people LOVE music, which is great. But has made more people know about music and like "catchy" songs (i.e., teenage T.R.L. kids), there fore they just like the "catchy" aspect and not the real "art" and "musical" aspect of it all.

Do you believe that the music industry and the material it is producing is in a slump as compared to previous decades, or do you think the best music is coming out right now?

That depends on how you look at it. At a financial stand point the music industry is at its finest... BUT as far as a MUSICAL stand point, the ROCK (not rap) industry is in a HUGE slump. Look at the late 60's and early 70's with Hendrix, Zeppelin, Floyd, The Who, The Stones etc. etc. These are HUGE bands that everybody has heard of even forty years later. Do you really think that Hoobastank or Fall Out Boy is going to be a "great" band in forty years?!?!

Are there labels out there that are really promoting creative music?

I'm sure that there is AND have been, but how can you compete against all the money that labels like Sony, Epic, and Interscope so on and so forth. Which is why rock music needs a BIG underground following to break through much like rap did in the 80's.

What do you think is the next big genre that will redifine music? And what band/artist do you think will lead the way?

Well, I HOPE it's the "post-rock" genre. I LOVE the post-rock genre. I honestly can't believe that Explosions in the Sky are not more popular. I think what modern day rock music is missing is more prominent guitar. If you look at the 60's, 70's and 80's rock band they were lead by guitar... Hendrix, Page, Gilmour. Richards, Van Halen, SRV, Mark Knopfler... Now a’ day’s there is barely ANY guitar gods... Which is why I think that the Mars Volta is a very revolutionary band. Their lead guitar player doesn’t just come up with catchy tunes, he has chops and is pushing the limits on modern day music writing and guitar...

Well, that's all I have for now. Please, if you disagree with any of this please do. I think this can be a VERY good thread and could be a very fun debate for a long time to come. Thank You Bent Twig for the thread...

...and sorry for the HUGE post, I just wanted to get this thread started in some shape or form...

[BentTwig]

Im just bumping this so I can respond tommorrow when i'm not friggin tired as hell. Well until then...

[Gnomad]

Re: The Music Industry

What things do you like and dislike about the music industry?

This one is easy. A&R people. They're the scum of the fucking earth. These people search for talent and feed that talent to the industry to be ground up, molded, sold, consumed, and shit out. They sell out these guys after they get them trust them. And when no one is buying the records anymore, they turn their back on these guys. The music industry is like a slaughterhouse, and A&R people are pretty much the people that drop the hammer on the head of the artist before being cut into packaged meat products.

The obvious answer is the almighty $... but to me, it could work in everyones favor if the industry wasn't run by people that don't listen to music.

Why do you feel that record companies try to produce streamlined repetative music, over adventurous and original music?

The majority of America's youth today are idiots. Stupid people spend their money on stupid shit. I fret the day the country is actually left in our hands.

Why do so many people listen to bad music (AKA Ashley Simpson and that stuff)?

You know, while I generally look down upon this kind of stuff, if you honestly like it, I can't fault you for having your own taste. Really, I think a lot of music geeks these days are the musical equivalent of racists. Just because you consider something bad doesn't change the fact that it's there and it's preferred by some people. A lot of people say dredg suck... I don't agree(obviously), but I can't be mad at them for having an opinion.

As for the reason, see above.

Do you believe that the music industry and the material it is producing is in a slump as compared to previous decades, or do you think the best music is coming out right now?

Nope, it's definitely not in a slump. It's been like this for decades. Sure, a few good bands squeak by every now and then, but some of the most popular stuff 20 or 30 years ago you have never heard of and most likely never will.

Are there labels out there that are really promoting creative music?

Yes.

What do you think is the next big genre that will redifine music? And what band/artist do you think will lead the way?

Independent music. I predict within the next 20 years, it'll be rare for the same 15 bands to be on the radio everywhere in America. I think each individual area will eventually sprout it's own musical culture, and some of the most popular bands in California will be complete unknowns in New York. It's so easy to create your own music at this point, the industry is going to be blindsided and collapse, leaving independent artists left to emerge.

[BentTwig]

Ok i've put this off too long, and I can't sleep so here it goes.

I hate the Music Industry right now. Its too much Industry and not enough music. Too much politics, not enough art. But you know we can't really blame the record comps or the A&R people. They're just doing there job and trying to do what is best for its business, which unfortunately is whats worse for music. But I know that the record companies and A&R people are not to blame. We, the listener of music, are to blame for the lack of originality and good music. Because when it all boils down to it, we buy the music, and if the majority of people chose to not listen to Ashley Simpson, then she would be gone in a second.

If we look at the past we can all say that music in a popular radio stance was more creative, original, and better, but I believe there are 3 strong reasons why it was so: The lack of technology, the psychology of the people, and the growing emphasis on commercialism and capitalism.

Back in the 60's and 70's people were completely different. People were not sheltered and cloned to be the the perfect type of people like they are now. They were adventerous, experimental, and rebellious. As a result, I think the music was affected by this and therefore was like the people, adventerous, experimental, and rebellious. Things like the Vietnam War, the nuclear threat, Civil Rights, The Hippie movement all greatly affected movement and were on peoples minds constantly and caused people to be explore more and escape life into music and art. Nowadays people are sheltered, not adventerous, and brought up to try and follow the American Dream. The only real things on our minds are the Iraq War, ourselves, and What clothes Paris Hilton is wearing. Its not a great environment to spark creativity and originality. People no longer question whats happening in the world, so they just sit and take what is given to them, and thats crappy music that sounds all the same. I mean the radio, MTV's "You hear it First" "Artists You should know," are all defined by a certain broad genre of music. They pretty much say hey if you like rock then you should listen to this band/ if you like what this radio station plays or this band, then listen to this group. This is just a method for major record companies to tell people what they should listen to, only so they can get money as a result of Kurt Loder telling us we should listen to them. And since the majority of young people (the people with the most money to spend) have been told what to do, what to wear, what to think and not do, then they pretyy much go "Ok Kurty, I'll go buy that album" They don't explore music and bands and try to find what they personally like, like us. Its really quite a clever scheme if you think about it. Major record companies pay radio stations and MTV to tell obsorbent youth what to listen to, and in return the youth buy their music. God Bless Capitalism.

The fruition of technological advances has shaped the pop music industry in everything from the way people record their music, to the instruments and sounds that artists use in their music, to the accessibility a person has to listening to music.
Back when the Industry was a good thing, only the most talented and original artists got produced and heard. Forty years ago it was very expensive to record music, or use recording equipment to help write music, and as explained, at the time pop music was complex, time consuming, and difficult to write. It was therefore very expensive and hard to write and record music, and only allowed a small amount of people to do so. Nowadays, anyone can buy a drum kit and a computer program and create music and c.d's, therefore people who aren't the best and the most original are able to enter the music scene. Then this creates a flooding into the market, and then too many bands sound too much alike. Also, back then, you had radio's, concerts, and records. There really wasn't much else to listen to music, so record companies could only produce so much music as a deterent to not create too much competition amongst their own bands and lose sales. Plus the biggest demographic for the sale of music, Girls age 7-16 didn't have all their Ipods and C.D. players to play the music they listen to, which, no offense, on average ins't creative or good.

Commercialism, in my mind, destroys creative processes for the allmighty dollar. Back then people didn't have the mass media coverage of artists from billboards to music videos to reality shows that judged not just their music, but also their appearance, image, sex appeal, dancing, and the like. Back then people had to rely on their actual talent and music to make it. I mean just look at artist from 40 years ago and how creepy looking some are and compare them to artists today. Now record companies don't just sign an artist for the music, but their image and appeal. They also will find out what is the Hot new genre then they'll just flood the market with the same types of bands that all have the same sound and no originality (just look at the Nu metal, or the emo screamo stuff). Now most major record companies will choose a certain demographic for their artist, not let them stray outside that demographic and the artist write music that appeals to that group and that group only. Most of the time its the 8-16 year old girls since they have the most money to spend on stupid music. This is a great deterent to bands like dredg, because they have no demographic and just appeal to whoever listens to them, so they don't get major backing by a label. This is an oxymoron/contradiction since I think the labels are too stupid to realize that since bands like dredg can have an appeal to people who are young old and everything inbetween, and therefore if they were to get major airplay and recognition they would become extremely popular.

Thats all I got right now. Theres more that could be talked about so lets try to keep this thread alive (One Second Clubber? oh yah, last what do you consider post rock? Gnodmad I find your independent Region music theory to be interesting too )

Till next time...

[lmerr]

This article on The Sound of Animals Fighting website is a pretty good example about the music industry and them totally fucking the artists who work for them.

http://www.thesoundofanimalsfighting.com/love/content/culture_other.html

[evasivetear]

Back in the 60's and 70's people were completely different. People were not sheltered and cloned to be the the perfect type of people like they are now. They were adventerous, experimental, and rebellious. As a result, I think the music was affected by this and therefore was like the people, adventerous, experimental, and rebellious. Things like the Vietnam War, the nuclear threat, Civil Rights, The Hippie movement all greatly affected movement and were on peoples minds constantly and caused people to be explore more and escape life into music and art. Nowadays people are sheltered, not adventerous, and brought up to try and follow the American Dream.

i find that interesting that you say that because it actually gives me hope as to what's happening now with some of the recent, more indie/good but not popular bands...

you saying that people were not sheltered and cloned back in the 60s and 70s is the exact opposite of how they were in the 40s and 50s. as far as i can tell from the stories i've heard from my parents / grandparents...people back in the 40s and 50s were very sheltered, were very much trying to live the american dream, and the only thing on their minds was 'what's mom going to make for dinner, because her place is in the kitchen' and 'oh shucks...this depression sure is bothersome'

i have hope, that within the next...i dunno...10 years....people will finally get fed up with all the crap the radio has been subjecting us to, and art will return to music. bands like dredg, mars volta, tool, the sound of animals fighting...to name a few, are the kind of bands that i feel put their art, their music above record sales...and for some of them, it's still luctrative to be creative.

shrug...we'll see. good post twig.

[nickgarv7]

re: The Music Industry

nice thread topic... somethin you could discuss forever.

see i think people are making the record companies out to be the absolute evil here...in my opinion it's the people. the record company will only put out or support bands that are going to make money. now, i'm not saying the record companies are saints. fuck no. but i think it falls way more into the listeners or peoples hands. they ultimately decide if they want to listen to it or not. or attend the concerts or not. or buy the merchandise or not. if you don't like it, don't support it in any way. it's not like the record company has some deep down thing to push emo/power pop (whatever you call it). they're just providing people with what they want to hear most. and in turn that provides (sony, bmg, virgin...) with the most money. if "bug eyes" was played on the radio in every city three times a day, at months end people are gonna forget about it or go out and buy it. if everyone loves, Interscope isn't gonna say "yeah, but dredg is a creative band so this doesn't count." they're gonna keep playing it and pushing it until we, the listeners, decide to search for something else. then the companies will tap into that style until it boils over. then look for the next best thing. the cycle keeps going. the people ultimately have the last say. a band or record company won't make any money if people don't support it.

just my opinions

[BentTwig]

Thanks for that article Imerr. I haven't read it, but I will.

I also find some hope in music, but this hope is sprouted from a lot of bad.

Analysts and specialists are predicting that in the very near future we could see another very bad recession or even a depression the likes of which we cannot determine. It is my belief that if it is not a very bad depression/recession that music and the industry will be benefitted by it. And here's why.

The bands that most of us listen to have huge cult-fanbases that would do almost anything for the band. If there is a depression/recession people are going to have a lot less money to spend on leisures and recreation like music and concerts. I believe if there was to be a said time, that the bands that will survive would be bands that know what its like to go through hard time, have small dedicated fanbases, and have fans that do whatever it takes to listen to them (dredg, the mars volta...). I mean if there is a lack of money, the majority of people will give up spending $15 on a c.d or even worse $40+ on a concert. These are all the people who just casually listen to music and go through bands like joints at a dredg concert (heh)... Mainly kids who won't have the money from their daddies to spend on crap. But people like us would sacrifice other things to get the next dredg c.d. and to go to the next concert. So these types of bands would still be able to pull in revenue. Major artists who are around for only a couple years yet make millions would disapear replaced by bands that have and will always have a strong fanbases who will listen to them forever and pay vast amounts of money for them (I mean how much have we all spent on dredg). Less money would be spent on promoting bands, creating images for artists, and recycling new bands into fads of genres like emo. This would therefore spark creativity, originality, and good music over repetition, rehashing, and simplicity. Record labels would then realize that no longer can they create a new artist, no longer could they duplicate bands and build careers off the backs of others (ehem Ashley Simpson), no longer could they spend majority of their money on promotion rather than creativity. That means that bands that truly deserve mainstream attention would arise, and people would no longer want to listen to the same crap over and over again. Then, once the period is over, these bands will continue to dominate and flourish.

I know thats kindof dark to think about, but I've done lots of research and truly believe that could happen. So if it does, we could all look forward to that.

[Gnomad]

You know what, you can blame the people all you want, but since the 50's, we've been a very impressionable society. The 60's and 70's included. I find it interesting that a lot of people seem to link drugs, 60's, and protest and open mindedness... I don't. I'll admit, an amazing amount of people were there for the expansion of the mind and the protest of ignorance... but there were WAY more people just along for the drugs. I don't really see a difference between then and now. Some good music was popular... hey, some good music is popular now too. There was a lot of crap on the radio then too. I don't buy into this whole "The world was better way back when" thing. I don't think you can just blame the people. Good demonstrations of that is actually having friends that are into popular culture. If you expose the things you love that you THINK expand your mind to them, usually people enjoy it. I have a friend that listened to noting but Top 40 for most of High School... we started hanging out a lot more after school was over and I showed her a lot of cool things that don't get press. She loved it... but she still loves Top 40.

I hate this shit as much as the next guy, but at the same time, if people enjoy it, who are we to put a squash on it? People know what they like and they know what they don't.

And another thing, I really don't believe that people dictate what's popular... the media does. If the people were really responsible for what the media aired, we'd have porn on network TV and a LOT more techno on the radio. The fact is, some things would be more popular if they got more airplay. The media just chooses what to push and what not to. Ask a DJ, most of them hate the music they have to play, but that's the record industry.

[nickgarv7]

re: The Music Industry

gnomad, you are right in saying that we are impressionable. and at the same time you are proving my point. about it ultimately lying in the listeners' hands. yeah it's a sad thing but that's how it goes. i just don't see how it could be the record companies' fault when they only survive because millions of people decide to turn their radio on everyday. or push a band who's record WILL sell millions. how can you fault them for that?? they are a business. let's face it, if a radio station played dredg, mars volta, tool, m83, explosions in the sky...all day, every day for the next week, you know how many pissed off people there would be in the US??? and how much money clear channel would lose?? it would be chaotic to no end.

[Gnomad]

Both our views enhance the other... but don't believe for a second that any sudden drastic change would effect the music industry. There's so much money flowing through that machine, when artists are ultimately dropped from the top 40 over night, nothing happens... even if the industry pushed more intelligent acts, they'd still have the power and ultimately people like us would hate the mainstream.

Sometimes, I think the underground merely exists to say they hate whatever the mainstream is doing.

[nickgarv7]

re: The Music Industry

yeah man i agree. it is a machine. it just sucks that there aren't more people like us who want to SEEK out better music. i mean, i honestly feel it's that inner drive to always find new music that separates everyday listeners from the people who are on these boards (you, me, everyone else here). i consider those people just fans. they hear a song...maybe go to the concert and it ends there. then there are those people who are passionate about it because it really moves them. they write about it. they talk to others about. they're always getting people to try new bands. i consider people here in that boat. hopefully, one day things may change for the better and bands like dredg will get their big break they so rightfully deserve.

[BuddyGoodness]

The music industry is shitty. That is all I need to say about it.