The Greatest Generation?

[cyrinic]

I heard a politician say something on TV the other day about "The Greatest Generation," and it got me thinking...

Given the current state of the world, how can this generation be considered the Greatest Generation?  I understand that many young men of this generation fought in an army that defeated a terrible threat to humankind - but how can this be considered so great if most of them were drafted into an army commanded by the generation above them?  Furthermore, how can their bravery outweigh what they've done to the world since then

-the Atomic bomb and the advent of nuclear weapons
-the Cold War - The Bay of Pigs, The Korean War, The Vietnam War
-global poverty and the spread of AIDS
-the development of an economy totally dependent on foreign oil and a culture of unsustainable living
-the cementing of an internationalist foreign policy that provokes terrorism against the US

The more I read the news and the more I think about what our generation (referring to people on this board under 35 or so, I guess) will have to deal with once soon, the angrier I get.  Our grandparents' and parents' generation have fucked the world up and who knows if they've given us the foundation to fix their mistakes.

Sorry, I know this isn't music related or even funny, I was just thinking about this a lot lately and thought that the intelligent people on this board might be able to contribute any thoughts.

[erikpemberton]

Way to piss in everyone's Wheaties, Debbie Downer.

[Ooga]

To summarize my thoughts:

THE WORLD HAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE FUCKED UP.

I know analyzing things can be fun and a great way to pass time, but fucking shit, man...   the world isn't ruined unless you quit.

[Ars Sycro]

I think that you are a billion times more cynical than myself. Yes, terrible things have come out of that generation, and terrible things come out of every generation. I think you are totally neglecting all of the good that has come out of the generation. And Ooga said it right "THE WORLD HAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE FUCKED UP."

[TheRuleofThree]

Actually I wouldn't blame the state of the world on the "Greatest Generation" as much as I would the baby boomers.  They fucked up what could have been a revolution in the late 60's with their excess, and then boomeranged all the way around and gave us some of the worst political decisions since our nation was founded.  I ABSOLUTELY agree with you that it's fair to look at the state of the world and point the finger at the generation in charge.

Yes, we all have complicity in the state of things, and Ooga's definitely right... we will never achieve perfection.  But each generation has their weaknesses and vices, and the boomers really fucked up a lot around here if you ask me.

[Trathena]

I think you are totally neglecting all of the good that has come out of the generation.

Can you list some of the good?

Added after 2 minutes:

They fucked up what could have been a revolution in the late 60's with their excess, . . .

What "excess" are you referring to? Because if you mean their excesses in the 80s I agree with you. If you're referring to the same "excess" that Barack was referring to, then I do not.

[Ars Sycro]

I think you are totally neglecting all of the good that has come out of the generation.

Can you list some of the good?

Computers. The internet. They were the ones in charge during the Civil Rights movement (yes, this means that many of them were on the side of racism, but many were also on the side of change). The Rat Pack. Many awesome pieces of literature and film.

[BuddyGoodness]

Re: The Greatest Generation?

-the Atomic bomb and the advent of nuclear weapons
-the Cold War - The Bay of Pigs, The Korean War, The Vietnam War
-global poverty and the spread of AIDS
-the development of an economy totally dependent on foreign oil and a culture of unsustainable living
-the cementing of an internationalist foreign policy that provokes terrorism against the US

Atomic bomb was in response to nazi germany, soviets and japan building it, he had to make it or we would have fallen under their control.

Global poverty has more to do with other countries and their own issues.  AIDS is a global problem and people were scared.
The cold war was a result of the generation before, the greatest generation moniker was bestowed upon the people who grew up in the depression and fought in WWII, that fear of communism was drummed into the populace.
Oil dependancy started by the previous generation as well.  Unsustainable living is in fact the one major flaw of that generation though and I tie that into promotion of capitalism ie materialism in response to communism.
Foreign policy was an offshoot of the cold war and capitalism, terrorism sprung up in response to our responses against soviet influence.

When I think of the greatest generation I think of the common people who stuggled through some hard times to make America great, I do not include many politicians or corporate people in that group though, they are the ones who drove those things you find objectionable.

[cyrinic]

- The Atomic Bomb was not a response to Germany.  The German army surrendered in May, the bomb was dropped in August.  Japan was not building a bomb, and using the bomb as a response to the Soviets spawned the Cold War and the arms race - pretty much my point in citing the atomic bomb.  The generation before dropped the bomb, but they kept the arms race going and proliferated nuclear weapons.

- Global poverty is as much our problem because we involve ourselves in the global economy.  AIDs is a global problem, but it wasn't always this bad and has grown into a worldwide epidemic because of a lack of action until recently.

- The Cold War was started by the generation before but Korea and Vietnam were the next generation's responsibility.

- Foreign policy was the combination of interwar economic internationalism and political isolationism that combined in a policy to defend the economic security of the US.  After WWI, the US found itself as a creditor nation for the first time; after WWII the US found itself as the world leader for the first time.  The Cold War foreign policy is result of this and has spilled over into today - even though we aren't in the Cold War anymore.

When I think of the "Greatest Generation," I include politicians and corporate leaders - they were either elected by them or were part of them.  

I know I'm being cynical, and I don't think the world has been ruined.  I thought it would be an interesting topic of discussion just as something I had been thinking about.

[IKnockStuffDown]

negative nancy

[erikpemberton]

Old people smell funny.

[BuddyGoodness]

- The Atomic Bomb was not a response to Germany.  The German army surrendered in May, the bomb was dropped in August.  Japan was not building a bomb, and using the bomb as a response to the Soviets spawned the Cold War and the arms race - pretty much my point in citing the atomic bomb.  The generation before dropped the bomb, but they kept the arms race going and proliferated nuclear weapons.

- Global poverty is as much our problem because we involve ourselves in the global economy.  AIDs is a global problem, but it wasn't always this bad and has grown into a worldwide epidemic because of a lack of action until recently.

- The Cold War was started by the generation before but Korea and Vietnam were the next generation's responsibility.

- Foreign policy was the combination of interwar economic internationalism and political isolationism that combined in a policy to defend the economic security of the US.  After WWI, the US found itself as a creditor nation for the first time; after WWII the US found itself as the world leader for the first time.  The Cold War foreign policy is result of this and has spilled over into today - even though we aren't in the Cold War anymore.

When I think of the "Greatest Generation," I include politicians and corporate leaders - they were either elected by them or were part of them.  

I know I'm being cynical, and I don't think the world has been ruined.  I thought it would be an interesting topic of discussion just as something I had been thinking about.

Yes, Germany was very close to building the bomb, as was Japan, the soviets were behind but they were still actively pursuing it.  The bombs were dropped on Japan to spare us a costly ground campaign on the mainland.  

Global poverty is not our fault, we contribute to it but we also help relieve it.  Each country has their own economies, we have a lot of influence but we don't make corrupt governments steal from their own people.  We do however use our economic clout to bully other countries into making concessions that was not for the benefit of their citizens.

Korean = Truman, Vietnam = LBJ, both of the previous generation.

Yes the people elected the leaders but they didn't elect them to create and continue the messes they did, they elected them for their domestic agendas more than their foreign ones.

Yes our foreign policy has always been "enlightened self interest," but most people are not willing to give up our lifestyle to help others

AIDS didn't start here, it spread to here, we cannot accept responsibility for the international state of this disease, billions of dollars has been funneled into curing it and after 2.5 decades we have still not cured it.  Individual irresponsibility is the major cause of the continuing spread of the disease.

The long term ramifications of the cold war are being seen now and yes it was a silly, short sighted endeavor but a lot of the technology we enjoy, including the internet came about because of the cold war.  We never would have gone to the moon without the cold war, there are many good things that came out of it, they are just small compared to the bad but never the less we have no idea how the world would have turned out if communism had been allowed to run unchecked.  last I looked America didn't have hundreds of millions of deaths as a result of our economic system.

[Ars Sycro]

Also, the Korean War was NOT an American war. It was a UN war. If Russia hadn't been pussies, the Korean War would have never happened and all of Korea would be a united communist dictatorship right now.

[Trathena]

Computers. The internet. They were the ones in charge during the Civil Rights movement (yes, this means that many of them were on the side of racism, but many were also on the side of change). The Rat Pack. Many awesome pieces of literature and film.

A thoughtful post! With good points! Please allow me to rip it to pieces! :-)

Seriously, I don't think I can.  But for some reason, this doesn't seem right.  The Greatest Generation let Jim Crow rule as long as they could. They hosed and gassed protesters during the Civil Rights Movement.

It's true they didn't begin the environmental problem, but they let the oil and gas and car industries gut the railroads, the trollies, the electric cars, and we have the results today.

They fought the unions until they couldn't anymore. We'd not have unions if they'd had their way.

They established the Protestant Work Ethic that places some type of higher value on Capitalism, bringing a false moral legitimacy to it.

They put God on our money and in our pledge.

They fought women's rights.

They lied about our country's history.

They put Reagan in office, thus bringing about the vast dumbing down of our American culture and citizens. The fruits of which we are all enjoying today.

Now, having said all of this, I may be full of crap.  Please feel free to tell me so.

[Ars Sycro]

They were 60 and 70 when Reagan was elected, so it's not quite fair to say that.

And yes, bad shit happened. Bad shit happens in every generation. All I said was that people always overlook the good that come out of every generation. Every generation is batshit bad, and every generation has parts that are awesome. Well, at least since the 17th century.