Best of Youtube / Google Video

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

I had argued that an informed a critique of religion informed by religious studies provides atheists with more interesting and intriguing critiques of religion. This was a response to your disavowal of the field.

[FeebleFables]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

We were talking about religion, and the definitions of religion. And then you denigrated all of religious studies, and that's how we got here.

We were? I thought we were talking about atheism and how it's not a form of religion, and then I went on to say that I don't care an ounce about religious studies...

I thought we were stuck on you not being able to describe atheism as a form of religion. And not being able to name a "fundamental" belief that an atheist can be "fundamentalist" about.
And not being able to name an atheistic argument informed by religious studies. For some reason, at this point you flipped it around the other way, to atheists' capabilities of studying religion...

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

How does one go about being a atheistic fundamentalist? Is there a holy book of atheism I'm supposed to base my life around? The God Delusion perhaps? I haven't even read that through. I don't think it's relevant to argue about gods existence or unexistence because no one ever wins that discussion. It's more interesting to look at the effect religion has upon people and it has done way more harm than good. That goes for every organized religion that likes to enforce their rules upon people.

Fundamentalism does not require a holy book. All it requires is a strict allegiance to any set of principles.

Unqualified statements like "religion has done way more harm than good" proves to be one of the most simplistic and ultimately unprovable thesis.
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lol, well, that ends that then.

*dodge*




I can think of no barrier preventing an atheist from studying the bible, or any other piece of literature if they so want. why? what was your point for all the name dropping? we're not talking about the bible are we? If so, I'll bow out. I thought we were talking about atheism...

We were talking about religion, and the definitions of religion. And then you denigrated all of religious studies, and that's how we got here.

[FeebleFables]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

Why? You wont read it. You wont even bother with it. That's kind of why this argument is an exercise in futility.

lol, well, that ends that then.

*dodge*

The assumed idea that everyone who has a modicum of interest in religious studies must be a "theist", as you put it, is rather amusing. There are lots of professors who are from non-theist tradition in the academy. But, just in case, Robert M. Price writes from the perspective of atheism, albeit Christian Atheism. He holds two PhDs, one in theology and one in Bible. There are other atheists as well. They do not all explicitly/publicly name their tradition, so, in favor of their anonymity, I will keep their names secret, as they are my friends, colleagues, and teachers. But they are there. Ivan Petrella, for example, is an Agnostic Christian liberation theologian, and, I believe, Bart D. Erdmann, a Bible scholar, still identifies as an agnostic.

I can think of no barrier preventing an atheist from studying the bible, or any other piece of literature if they so want. why? what was your point for all the name dropping? we're not talking about the bible are we? If so, I'll bow out. I thought we were talking about atheism...

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

Why? You wont read it. You wont even bother with it. That's kind of why this argument is an exercise in futility. The assumed idea that everyone who has a modicum of interest in religious studies must be a "theist", as you put it, is rather amusing. There are lots of professors who are from non-theist tradition in the academy. But, just in case, Robert M. Price writes from the perspective of atheism, albeit Christian Atheism. He holds two PhDs, one in theology and one in Bible. There are other atheists as well. They do not all explicitly/publicly name their tradition, so, in favor of their anonymity, I will keep their names secret, as they are my friends, colleagues, and teachers. But they are there. Ivan Petrella, for example, is an Agnostic Christian liberation theologian, and, I believe, Bart D. Erdmann, a Bible scholar, still identifies as an agnostic.

[FeebleFables]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

A fundamentalist is a fundamentalist regardless of system. One can be a Christian one, a Muslim one, or even an Atheistic one.

Lulz at the idea of me being a theist.
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Pity, though, that you wont move beyond your ignorance and insularity. Atheist arguments informed by religious studies are a lot more intriguing and convincing.

Go ahead and name a "fundamental" belief that an atheist can be "fundamentalist" about.

Also name an atheistic argument informed by religious studies. there's only one atheistic argument that I know of.

[SimpatiK]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

How does one go about being a atheistic fundamentalist? Is there a holy book of atheism I'm supposed to base my life around? The God Delusion perhaps? I haven't even read that through. I don't think it's relevant to argue about gods existence or unexistence because no one ever wins that discussion. It's more interesting to look at the effect religion has upon people and it has done way more harm than good. That goes for every organized religion that likes to enforce their rules upon people.

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

A fundamentalist is a fundamentalist regardless of system. One can be a Christian one, a Muslim one, or even an Atheistic one.

Lulz at the idea of me being a theist.
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Pity, though, that you wont move beyond your ignorance and insularity. Atheist arguments informed by religious studies are a lot more intriguing and convincing.

[FeebleFables]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

Oh, so you are conversant in religious studies now? Somehow I highly doubt this. I am using the major definition that is currently popular in the academic study of religions. Certainly, evangelical scholars would probably share your definition, but they are currently in the minority in the academy. I think you are clearly speaking from ignorance here.

I don't give 1 shit about religious studies, nor should I. I am conversant in logic and reason, and when discussing the differences of theism and atheism, I will be using logic and reason. You can personally use whatever definition of religion your religious studies grant you, I don't give a 2nd shit. But unless your definition of religion is: "a state of being" we are NOT going to agree that unbelief is a form of religion. And for the very reason that I am an atheist, I don't give a 3rd shit whether any of your academic theists agree with me or not.

I mean, I don't walk into a science lecture presuming that I know more about science than the academic. Nor do I presume the authority to write on matters of science without any real training in it, like Dawkins writes about religion. However, for whatever reason I cannot really fathom, people who do not spend one moment critically engaging religion from the perspective of religious studies, nor even reading a salient text produced by that field, feel as though they have more knowledge than those who have spent years in this field. I suppose this is what a scientist feels like when Albert Mohler weighs in on why Intelligent Design is vastly superior to evolution.

aha, but see, we're not talking about theism or any internal aspects thereof, knock yourself out discussing that with your professors. here we're talking about atheism, and I guess more specifically separation FROM theism, something you've admitted you know little about.
If you want to start a conversation about the morality of jesus's teachings in the new testament, for example, I'll be the first to bow out and walk away, giving you the whole floor.

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

Oh, so you are conversant in religious studies now? Somehow I highly doubt this. I am using the major definition that is currently popular in the academic study of religions. Certainly, evangelical scholars would probably share your definition, but they are currently in the minority in the academy. I think you are clearly speaking from ignorance here.

Science may not have a ethical system, and neither does religion as a category. The problem is not religion, but certain religious people. It is an important distinction. Which is the problem with this guy's video. Sure there are specific sects of specific religious groups that have an ethical system, just like certain scientists have ethics, but these religious groups derive their understanding from a very specific ideological construction of their understanding of religion.
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I mean, I don't walk into a science lecture presuming that I know more about science than the academic. Nor do I presume the authority to write on matters of science without any real training in it, like Dawkins writes about religion. However, for whatever reason I cannot really fathom, people who do not spend one moment critically engaging religion from the perspective of religious studies, nor even reading a salient text produced by that field, feel as though they have more knowledge than those who have spent years in this field. I suppose this is what a scientist feels like when Albert Mohler weighs in on why Intelligent Design is vastly superior to evolution.

[FeebleFables]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

I am using a definition of religion based on the academic study of religion. I am sorry you are hostile to this. This conversation will go nowhere with you.

No, you are choosing ONE definition out of many for what is decidedly a nebulous term. But you are correct, the conversation will go nowhere with me until the borders of the debate are set in stone.

Wait, it wasn't wrong for them to experiment on African Americans at Tuskegee? That was not an immoral experiment? Even science has ethics, and Tuskegee was a clear violation of ethics.

I think it was wrong. I think it was immoral. scienTISTS have ethics, or in this case lack there-of. science itself cannot make decisions either way. Just like mathematics.

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

I am using a definition of religion based on the academic study of religion. I am sorry you are hostile to this. This conversation will go nowhere with you.
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Wait, it wasn't wrong for them to experiment on African Americans at Tuskegee? That was not an immoral experiment? Even science has ethics, and Tuskegee was a clear violation of ethics.

[FeebleFables]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

I believe I said unbelief forms a religion, not religion.

how does unbelief form a religion? (not religion)

And, evil is a moral/theological term. I am pretty sure those who were experimented on at Tuskegee would call that evil in the name of science. Immoral does not exactly cover the horrors of that event.

I'm sure some might, but they'd be wrong, since one cannot perform an 'evil' act in the name of (method-of-gathering-knowledge). Science is neither moral nor immoral, just like mathematics is neither moral nor immoral. Serial killers don't commit evils in the name of algebra. Immoral EXACTLY covers the horrors of that event, because the horrors were perpetrated by the twisted ideologies of human beings. It has nothing to do with the methods by which they carry out their immoral acts. to say otherwise is scapegoating, and diverts attention away from where it should be: the immoral perpetrators.

I see you are still using religion in its more archaic definition that posits religion requiring metaphysics. From a religious studies perspective, atheism can be and is studied as a form of religion.

I see you are still using a definition of religion how it best suits you for the argument at hand.
From a personal perspective, you (or anyone) can feel free to study atheism however you want, from a logical perspective, the onus is on you to prove that atheism is a form of religion, given that the definition is agreed upon.

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

I politely say thank you, and tell them that I would like to enjoy eating my meal in quiet or I keep walking away.
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It is the same tact I take with evangelical Christians. However, I do normally invite the Muslims to eat with me or to have tea, because Islam fascinates me.

[Knifeboy]

Re: Best of Youtube / Google Video

Do tell me how often are you approached by atheists in real life that try to convert you?