Religion Help???

[Shigeru]

I know there's a separate thread for religion, but I have this particular question that I desire to have quick answers to.

My question is this:

What exactly are the similarities between Islam, Judaism and Christianity? I, myself, am Christian and admittedly don't know too terribly much about Islam in particular.

What really makes these 3 religions different? Are they very similar or very unsimilar? Are they misconstrued by populary opinion in media, like newspapers and tv?

I'm hoping Auto can give a detailed answer. =)

[BuddyGoodness]

Re: Religion Help???

Well first off they all stem from the middle east and all hold Abraham in high regard. Islam sees itself as an advancement of Judaism and Christianity. They believe god has sent many prophets, including Jesus, though Muhammad is considered the final prophet, the one who revealed all the information Muslims need to know.

The differences cannot be summed up easily though and doing so is more than I am willing to do right now due to a hangover.

[Trathena]

Re: Religion Help???

The similarity, as I understand it, is that the first patriarch for all three religions is Abraham.

Islam comes from the descendants of Abraham's son with Hagar: Ishmael. Remember when God told Hagar that Ishmael would be the father of a great nation? That's what he was talking about.

Judaism comes from the tribes of Israel: Isaac's sons with Rachel. Isaac was Abraham's son with Sarah.

I hope this is making sense. So they have this in common: a common ancestor in Abraham. Moreover, all three worship the same God/Creator, and--to an extent--all three follow the same religious texts. All three follow the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible/Torah. I do not know if Muslims have an equivalent to the OT or if they use the Hebrew Bible too or if they just read the Qur'an.

Like Buddy said, however, both Christianity and Islam have a main, infallible prophet that they follow (whereas Judaism does not), with Christianity taking it one step further by saying that their prophet is also God. This is the main difference. Jews and Muslims "respect" the New Testament and Jesus as a prophet, but that's where it ends with them.

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Religion Help???

yes and no.

they do all share the common patriarch abraham. however, the birth of ishmael and his treatment by abe and sarah are less-than positive (gen 16-17; 21). the blessing of ishmael comes in the later chapter (21.18). however, the promise in the text refers only to the establishment of a great nation, the ishmaelites, not the greatness of islam per se. (one can not the similarities between the promises god establishes with other people and how they only entail the establishment of a nation, not a religion--e.g., esau. there is not reason to believe that this promise is any different.) one must be curious as to moslims thoughts and the portrayal of both the birth and treatment of ishmael.

as for judaism: the line does come from abe and isaac, but it is jacob who is the direct progenitor of israel with his 12 sons who become the 12 tribes of israel. (what, no love for his daughter?) and, of course, the two different name changings of jacob to israel, at the jabbok (32) and at luz/bethal (35). it is interesting that the origins of Judaism would come from jacob. jacob is the younger twin who tricks--supplants--his brother, with the help of their mother, rachel.

now christianity actually comes out of the line of david, established through the line of jacob's son judah, who was born via leah (whose name means cow). the davidic line is the line of the kings (shepherds) in the southern kingdom (for a brief time ruled over both the northern and southern kingdoms) and the line that is particular to the royal theology/ideology (psalm 2). this becomes important due to the interruption of the davidic line when the davidic line was granted unconditional rule over all of israel (and really the world) (2 sam 7). with the prophecy of isaiah, christians believe that jesus is the promised one/anointed one/messiah within the davidic line that isaiah was talking about (7; 8).

now, similarities and differences? well, they are all "monotheistic". (judaism seems to evince a change from henotheism to monotheism). christianity, however, does have this strict monotheism, by nature, which draws upon the shema (deut. 6.4), what is called the greatest commandment in the greek scriptures (matt 22.46-37; cf. luke 10.25-28).

traditionally speaking, judaism does not speak of an evangelical message per se. but that is arguable in light of Isaiah 2. christianity and islam both have evangelical imperatives to be fulfilled. but in islam is this evangelical message to be taken to jews and christians? no. according to islamic beliefs christians and jews are "of the book." therefore establishing that christians and jews will not be punished within islam. however, there is no reciprocity that has been traditionally established in christianity towards moslims. the afterlife is also another point of departure between the three. christianity and islam both have concepts of an afterlife. this does not, however, exist within traditional judaism. there are some sects today that do have an afterlife.

what about prophets? while it is true that jesus and mohammed are the prophets for christianity and islam, respitively, judaism is not without its own high prophet, moses. tradition has it that moses wrote the torah (genesis - deuteronomy), and it is he who informs the majority of judaism (see jeremiah). however, moses is not considered divine, like jesus. this brings us to my last point for right now: writings.

moslims do acknowledge the hebrew scriptures and the greek scriptures as speaking to the divine god that they all share, and many texts are paralleled and sometimes added to in the qur'an. the original language of the qur'an is supposed to be the language the qur'an is to be read in, not in a english translation, a point of departure from christianity and judaim. the qur'an is said to be the words spoken by mohammed concerning his teachings, and the text was recorded immediatly following mohammed's death. juxtapose this with christianity: the gospels were written many years after the death of jesus (mark being the earliest c. 70 c.e.). it has been traditional to state that the first five books of the hebrew scriptures are written by moses. this, however, has been largely debunked. moreover, there are also laws and mores placed on the treatment of the qur'an itself. (i am not sure how much of this is still followed by all moslims.) this same reference for the text is also prevalent in some sects of christianity. i do not know about the treatment of the hebrew scriptures by judaism.

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you can begin to tell that i deal with texts more than i do with anything else.

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thus says the lord.

[Shigeru]

Re: Religion Help???

Much appreciated, folks.

Auto, I think the use of the texts is most paramount, so you using them a lot only helps me with your answer.

Would you say your opinion of these 3 religions differs from what is normally portrayed of them in public arenas? Newspaper/television/movies?

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Religion Help???

i would say it always differs from what is portrayed in those outlets, as long as you are speaking of mainstream outlets. it is clear that there is still a pretty negative image of islam that is only increasingly exacerbated. recently, a movie entitled "obsession" has been distributed in the denver post and through the mail that perpetuates the negative image of islam. to take the radical fringes of islam and to make this fringe speak for the whole of the religion is problematic; it is like taking fred phelps and saying he speaks for all of christianity.

[Shigeru]

Re: Religion Help???

I'm assuming that movie is a perpetuation of the idea that Islam instructs its followers to kill infidels?

Does Islam really teach this? Does the Quran say that if you sacrifice yourself (suicide bombing) you will go to heaven?

What I'm asking is this: these radical Muslims... are they acting out what their holy book instructs them to do? Or can it come down to so many things like in the Bible: interpretation? Metaphorical vs. Realistic?

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Religion Help???

i am not a qur'an scholar, and i am not sure if that is in the text or not. i would just do an internet search and cross reference its findings to the qur'an. i know that talal asad has a book out that might cover this issue: on suicide bombing (2007)

[Trathena]

Re: Religion Help???

I'm assuming that movie is a perpetuation of the idea that Islam instructs its followers to kill infidels?

Does Islam really teach this? Does the Quran say that if you sacrifice yourself (suicide bombing) you will go to heaven?

What I'm asking is this: these radical Muslims... are they acting out what their holy book instructs them to do? Or can it come down to so many things like in the Bible: interpretation? Metaphorical vs. Realistic?

I don't know the mindset of radical Muslims, so I can't say why they are the way they are, but the Qur'an does have passages that encourage believers to put "infidels" to death and it ensures reward in heaven.

However, the Hebrew Bible teaches this too. Just read those chapters on when the Israelites were taking over in Canaan. It's the same thing, and it's what still influences the Israel/Palestinian war today.

The New Testament is a little better, but not much. I don't have to tell you the Bible's many, many instructions to kill and mutilate those who step out of line. I would also say that there are most likely radical Jews and Christians who'd follow those "Godly Laws" if our civil laws allowed them to.

In some Arab nations, the civil laws allow Muslims to, for example, set their daughters on fire for having sex and hang gay men for being gay. This is because the civil laws are also the religious laws. The only difference between their religious texts and Christian and Hebrew texts is that theirs is allowed to influence law.

That being said, most Muslims (especially those living in secular, First World nations) are like most Christians and Jews: they no longer follow the more cruel, radical passages in their sacred texts. They see them as most rational people do: primitive teachings for tribal peoples who lived a different culture with different mores and beliefs.

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Religion Help???

In some Arab nations, the civil laws allow Muslims to, for example, set their daughters on fire for having sex and hang gay men for being gay. This is because the civil laws are also the religious laws. The only difference between their religious texts and Christian and Hebrew texts is that theirs is allowed to influence law.

are you saying that laws in the united states or other "christian" nations have never been informed by the christian religion?

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i would argue that some of these arab nations have had some of the most tolerant policies humanity has ever seen, and that these policies were influenced by their reading of the qur'an.

[Trathena]

Re: Religion Help???

are you saying that laws in the united states or other "christian" nations have never been informed by the christian religion?

No.

i would argue that some of these arab nations have had some of the most tolerant policies humanity has ever seen, and that these policies were influenced by their reading of the qur'an.

I wouldn't debate that.

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Religion Help???

No.

it sounded like that was your point.

[Trathena]

Re: Religion Help???

it sounded like that was your point.

It wasn't. If I'd wanted to say that, I have said that no nation has ever been informed by the Christian religion.

But if I'd said that, I'd have been talking about something completely different than what I was talking about. :-)

[And we'll just put a happy little bush over here.]

Re: Religion Help???

i still don't follow. i guess what i need is an explanation of this sentence:

The only difference between their religious texts and Christian and Hebrew texts is that theirs is allowed to influence law.

[Trathena]

Re: Religion Help???

It makes sense in context with the entire paragraph:

In some Arab nations, the civil laws allow Muslims to, for example, set their daughters on fire for having sex and hang gay men for being gay. This is because the civil laws are also the religious laws. The only difference between their religious texts and Christian and Hebrew texts is that theirs is allowed to influence law.

I was referencing Iran and the Taliban's rule of some nations. We are a secular nation. Sure, when the Puritans ran the show, we weren't but that's why I used the present tense in my last sentence. Some argue that our laws are morally/religiously/biblically based. Some argue they're based on Hammarabi. I couldn't care less. It's semantics and splitting hairs.

My point was in context of how things are in countries like Iran. Just a few weeks ago, Ahmadinejad condescended to an interview on Democracy Now. Goodman asked him about homosexuality being a death sentence. You can search the site and find the interview, but I'll paraphrase that his main answer is that they are a theocracy. Their laws are based on their religion only. We are not a theocracy; if we were we'd be killing our homosexuals too.

I never said that Christianity had no influence on our nation's laws. That would be wrong. I said that our present laws are not dictated by a sacred text, as they are in most Arab nations.